New Italian Record BiFins 210m Alessia Zecchini

[baiyoke]

Can't see this topic using search, so if it hasn't been mentioned before it deserves some attention:

Alessia Zecchini using small fins doing a looong DYN

 

[baiyoke]

And one year ago 200 m

Doing kick-glide bifins

 

[Kars]

Wow, amazing!!!
She made it look easy too! No sign of samba and very lucid and quick recovery! I think she can do more, maybe even get close to Natalia's 235WR under AIDA rules.
I find myself motivated to put on my fins and try a max dyn with them, as I do not recall doing a max dynamic with bifins...
Now i think of it, swimming bifins may actually be better for people with a poor/late diveresponse because there is no bodymovement needed, which helps to keep the circulation down, allowing an easier onset of the diveresponse.

Thank you for the inspireing dive and video!

 

[baiyoke]

Yes, this is a great video, a great performance from Alessia and a reminder to us all that overall monofins need to be efficient, not just powerful (depending on the style). These fins are fairly efficient allready, monofins are just a little bit more efficient. But of course it depends on the individual bodycomposition, kickstyle, and mental preferences...

I'd love to see Goran do this also, and see where it would take him

I think that it might take some getting used to both physically and mentally. Not feeling the "big push" can be a little stressful. However maybe some people can just do it, don't know.

One guy I know likes it because as he states: "It feels more like doing static, with a little movement added..."

Interesting idea about the dive-respons...!

 

[Kars]

R

Yes, this is a great video, a great performance from Alessia and a reminder to us all that overall monofins need to be efficient, not just powerful (depending on the style). These fins are fairly efficient allready, monofins are just a little bit more efficient. But of course it depends on the individual bodycomposition, kickstyle, and mental preferences...

I'd love to see Goran do this also, and see where it would take him

I think that it might take some getting used to both physically and mentally. Not feeling the "big push" can be a little stressful. However maybe some people can just do it, don't know.

One guy I know likes it because as he states: "It feels more like doing static, with a little movement added..."

Interesting idea about the dive-respons...!

I know from my dnf experience it makes a great difference weather I put more energy in my arms or put more emphasis on my legs. With more emphasis on the legs and only peddling along with my arms my DR kicks in earlier and deeper. With 60% directed to the arms the DR is much less resulting ina shorter dnf.

Analying the way she swimms I see that she uses small amplitude finning with occational glide moments, in such a way that most momentum is preserved. I think the small glide moments help to keep the blood circulation down which prevents fresh blood supplying the muscles.
I would love to hear of people experimenting with this hypophesis.

One experiment I can think of is:
1: swim 100m dyn mono and note: time, technique used, speed, 1st contraction,amount of lactic build up, and how much you think you could have done.
2: swim 100m contious stroke, note the same factors.
3: swim 100m bifins continous, take your notes.
4: swim 100m bifins kick kick glide, take your notes.

Off cause you want to keep all the other parameters the same.
If the 100m is close to your personal best, then do only one out of four, and the others on other equally rested training days.

I also wonder if the size and stifness of the bifins mattter, so contrast and compare is also due for that.

I love hearing your results.

 

[growingupninja]

I train/hunt exclusively in bifins, both pool and depth. For a couple of comps i have borrowed a carbon fiber mono and to date have under 500 meters total in my entire life in a mono (although as a comp swimmer butterfly was my stroke so mono is very natural), but easily many many hundreds in longfins...

Difference is night and day... Mono is at least 30% easier/farther. I also do about 10-20% of my bifin swimming dolphin kicking. Stiffer bifins are more efficient for me when doing dolphin kick.

 

[baiyoke]

Difference is night and day... Mono is at least 30% easier/farther.

My guess is that for different people we will see differences in how bifins and monofin performances compare... But with a strong tendency towards people going longer with monos.

Remember though that the longest registered dive with a mono is only 24% longer than the longest using only small hands and feet. 24% is of cause a lot in one way. But it also indicates that perhaps there's a posibility that with normal sized bifins or long fins it is possible to go far. Tom Sietas is said to have been at 250m regularly in training back then (wich seems possible from his 223m record dive).

Your experience is a good one to note, but also it is not clear what to conclude: You have trained dolfin-kick as a swimmer, and as a bi-finner... And the monofin experience was in competition only... (some people only max-out in competitions).

But all in all 30% more efficient sounds like a fair and possible average number I guess... However, only as an average. I doubt the Alesia can do 273m with a mono... But she seems to be unusually talented with bifins anyway...

 

[growingupninja]

True. I think the differential would also be reduced if i swam with more weight. Since i am conditioning for ocean/depth there is no point to making pool swims easier so i swim with no weight and have to sustain a certain speed just to keep from floating up. In pool comp i have worn weight but I was still very much positive; mono is especially efficient for an under weighted DYN because the large surface area during the glide phase keeps the diver down; ability to glide long distances was the main advantage I found with a mono over bifins. For depth the ability to glide is not really a huge bonus.

Next pool comp i am going to take more seriously and dial in my weight etc.

 

[Mullins]

Remember though that the longest registered dive with a mono is only 24% longer than the longest using only small hands and feet.

Or 21%

 

[baiyoke]

Or 21%

Well, I took Gorans CMAS 288m as a reference - and your 232m... And that came up 24%

It's funny though, now that you mention it: I figured that you figured that I used only AIDA WR so tried that - wich also come up 24%... Ha ha

 

[Mullins]

Ahh!

 

[Kars]

How do your bifin versus monofin numbers compare Dave?

 

[Mullins]

I don't know Kars, never pushed very hard with bifins. They ought to be fairly close though, since bifins isolate your legs pretty well, plus with small fins you can get a good pushoff, as per the video above. So, painful but effective?

 

[Kars]

I don't know Kars, never pushed very hard with bifins. They ought to be fairly close though, since bifins isolate your legs pretty well, plus with small fins you can get a good pushoff, as per the video above. So, painful but effective?

Yes I know the lactic acid is deamed to be painful, but at the same time she is managing rather cleverly doing kkg and using small soft fins going for more frequency and smaller amplitude. Your DR is much stronger then mine, so I believe I may benefit more.
I did once use big bifins in a comp, but in hindsight I swam too fast and the big fins needed big powerfull strokes to be within efficieny range. So with small soft fins I expect a different dynamic. If I where your coach I would suggest giving the small fins with kick kick glide a chace, just for fun. I believe that you may discover something doing a 150. No need for a 250 dive to discover the potential, I think.
Also, the easy push of walls has potential. Though for me, the bringing the legs in is already a bloodflow increasing activity, with my monofin. I wonder If the small bifins help.

 

[xristos]

Kars and some other people in the forum share every knowledge or idea they have generously and I just wanted say thank you, it's really appreciated. I feel there is some mysticism in the sport, but not in this forum !

As for the current topic, since fish swim style, is closer to the monofin, it's a strong argument/indicator, that this is the most efficient way. But then comes comfort and human bio-mechanics ( we aren't fish ). So we have to find something that is as much efficient as possible, and the same time uses the human land oriented structure to its maximum potential. Consequently, I think it is possible that the best way to go probably isn't the monofin for every person. But practise shows that it is, performance-wise at least .

 

[Kars]

Thanks Xristos, Indeed I'm not holding back an inch, and I have no need to occult knowledge or experience, I have no records to defend, nor students to attrackt. My only goal is to learn, see others enjoy and have more fun, exploring together.
One of the fun things about freediving is that it is still in the rapid growth phase, though as of last year the WR's did not rise as much as before. What I like is that eventhough there is a lot copying going on, there are still people comming up with supprising variations, such as this thread so beautifully demonstrates. People are different, and we do have different muscles and body types. I think it's rather logical that those different types have a different set of tactics. To me its very interesting. I'm enamoured when variations succeed, and people with less then optimal physigue succeed.

 

[baiyoke]

Wow - girl got depth skills too

 

[Stephan Whelan]

Can't see this topic using search, so if it hasn't been mentioned before it deserves some attention:

Alessia Zecchini using small fins doing a looong DYN

@baiyoke - we never were aware of it - anything like this please forward to news@deeperblue.com and we can ensure it is taken up as news.