New laws on spearfishing in the UK

[Mike Bradshaw]

New threats EU single bass for anglers and spearos lobby your euro MP to prevent this being passed.

Suggested ethics for Spearfishing in the UK ;

Set a maximum number and size limit over the local minimum allowed as in SUSSEX fisheries have an agreed code max ten bass over 45cm .

Personally I have my own limit of 5 bass must be over 4.5LB

Never shoot anything that you cannot eat or dispose of ethically (not sell against EU law).

No night diving as this is unsporting and already banned in most countries.

No spearfishing or taking flat fish or crabs ,scallops or lobster when using an aqualung.(breath hold take only as this limits the take and the impact.

Act as ambassador for the sport as its the only selective method of getting a fish meal with no by catch and minimal environmental impact .

Just my view if you want to be able to teach your children and grandchildren this great sport.
Be vigilant on preventing bans and ill informed legislation being passed, lobby, petition and educate.

FACT NO EURO MEP IS A SPEARFISHERMAN
ENJOY YOUR SPORT.

 

[myfish]

New threats EU single bass for anglers and spearos lobby your euro MP to prevent this being passed.

Suggested ethics for Spearfishing in the UK ;

Set a maximum number and size limit over the local minimum allowed as in SUSSEX fisheries have an agreed code max ten bass over 45cm .

Personally I have my own limit of 5 bass must be over 4.5LB

I and most I dive with never shoot bass under 45cm and, most of us have a personal limit
. ALL our comps have a 45cm minimum and, we run a comp where ONE bass can be weighed and it is well attended.

Never shoot anything that you cannot eat.

Common sense really.

No night diving as this is unsporting and already banned in most countries.

Nothing wrong with night diving treated in a respectable manner and treated as 'foraging'. Making things like this LAW will open a can of worms I would rather leave closed. We often paddle out, during darkness, kitted out to dive the first light but, the law could argue you are night diving if you are on the water, kitted out etc. We fish for red mullet, flats, rays etc at night and rarely, if ever take bass but, if I chose too, I don't want some euro muppet telling me I cannot when they have no experience regards the sport nor impact.

No spearfishing or taking flat fish or crabs ,scallops or lobster when using an aqualung.(breath hold take only as this limits the take and the impact.

I know very few people who spearfish in our waters using scuba so cannot comment. However, making assumptions regards someone else's pleasures and sport without proper research is foolhardy. Do you have any 'evidence' to suggest scuba divers fish in an unsustainable fashion ?

Act as ambassador for the sport as its the only selective method of getting a fish meal with no by catch and minimal environmental impact .

Completely agree.

FACT NO EURO MEP IS A SPEARFISHERMAN
ENJOY YOUR SPORT.

Actually, do we know this to be a fact?

 

[Apneaddict]

Actually, do we know this to be a fact?

Unless politicians are different in the UK vs North America, I expect that they will do what is politically expedient, vs what is logical.

Maybe 1000th of a perfect of constituents know what Spearfishing is...

Good luck fighting the EU

I suggest you get familiar with another country within a 4 hr flight of you...

The writing is on the wall, I'm afraid.

 

[Pinniped72]

The saving grace for spearfishing here is that the proposed legislation covers spearfishing and angling, whilst spearfishing is a minority activity, angling is very well represented. Sensible measures to ensure sustainability is welcomed by me personally and to ensure that spearfishing is not relegated to the pages of history, self regulation by us all is required I think. For the freedom to fish, angling and spearfishing need to stick together, the danger is when one or the other decides to throw the other under the bus for some political or legislative brownie points. This has happened with other activities on numerous occasions. The government and the EU have to realise that the world wide commercial fishing fleets are the issue for our seas but that conflicts across international boundaries and gets complicated, its far easier to target the angler and spearfisherman/woman who does not have access to the finances required for long drawn out and very expensive legal battles over scientific evidence and legislation. This would be a chance for our government to do something that actually has real effects, not just something that sounds good to the uninformed. Anyway I've put my soapbox away now

 

[artiz]

. Anyway I've put my soapbox away now

I think putting your soapbox away is probably the worst possible thing any of us should do right now... that enduring ethos of 'keeping it quite', 'don't rock the boat' etc is short-sighted and unintelligent... and always has been! The 'writing on the wall' is very clear but it doesn't mean we should just give up and slink away.

New threats EU single bass for anglers and spearos lobby your euro MP to prevent this being passed.

Rather than writing individually to our euro mp Mike shouldn't you British Spearfishing Association blokes get your own house in order first... whether we like it or not you are still the only official representation that spearfishing has in the UK? Having noticed that Steve Mullineaux has recently stepped down this year as your chairman I can only fear the worst now... besides ethics is the job of official/group representation... not individuals.
Sure UK spearos may be a small group but that doesn't mean we have nothing to bring to the negotiation table... what we do is unique and specialised and could provide immeasurable benefits to EU/Goverment fisheries monitoring and marine science in the future.
We need an association which represents ethical spearfishing's future in the UK... not 86 blokes who enjoy wiping out localised stocks of fish in a particular area during a days competition... its clearly not ethical as well as being overtly hypocritical... same goes for organised DB socials in the Channel Islands which wipe out specific, localised Mullet stocks.
Personally I agree with a lot of what you say Mike but any representation now at any official level where it might count (by the BSA) will be laughed at by the legislators... and rightly so. Even more perhaps when Labour gets in next year.
Instead of suggesting your own ethics on DB, perhaps you should be telling your new BSA chairman (and fellow members) that its high time for wholesale change regarding what the BSA should be representing to the public and future marine legislation discussions! You might want to sack your clueless and pernicious fisheries officer now as well!

Then again the BSA didn't listen 2 years ago when I first informed you all as a reluctant but paid up member that this particular legislation was coming... so why would you bother now?

Prevention will always be better than cure!

 

[Pinniped72]

I think there are different factors that need considering when discussing this. Politicians need votes so public opinion does matter to them, it has to, which gets me thinking. The non spearfishing public will most definitely accept spearfishing as a food gathering activity a lot more than they will as a competitive activity, that seems fairly obvious to me, most people dislike the idea of anything being killed in the name of competition or ego massaging. If competition is the name of the game, we are loosing our biggest selling point, the fact that spearfishing is totally selective, there is no by catch, there are no undersize fish to return, possibly injured beyond survivability. The fact that spearfishing is so selective and potentially conservation friendly is the key to its long term survivability. It has obviously not been sold correctly so far, because if it had been, it would be being praised by all and sundry as a responsible and environmentally friendly way of feeding yourself from the sea. On my part of the coast, I can catch much more angling on my kayak at the right spot than I can spearfishing, but for me being in the sea is good enough, if I can catch dinner as well, its a bonus. In the UK, the sea is the last place that you can catch your own food using rubber or pneumatic powered tools, I consider it to be the last free and wild place that we have, it would be a damn shame if through our lack of foresight now, we loose the freedom tomorrow.

 

[Kars]

Perhaps spearfishing people can draw a comparison between dear hunting and spearfishing. It's a bit more likely that those lords, and some of the MP's are into that, or know fortunate backers who are into that.

I agree prevention is better then a cure.

Maybe UKIP will stand up for the cultural aspects of the UK, part of is hunting gathering and spearfishing? Do you have an old spearfish history in the UK?

Isn't it unbelievable that so many people in the EU do not want the EU, and whole nations voted against it, and still it goes on unabated?
Will people do anything for money, comfort and sense of safety?

Recently my underwater swimming was banned from the local pool, after 9 years of no incident, pleasant and appreciated use. Fear of laws is taking over from reason. I would have signed a disclaimer, but there was no room for any influence nor negotiation. Whilst I'm a taxpayer, and therefore partial owner of the public pool. I recognise the trend to more policies, and more confusion, fear, and selective enforcement.

In the Netherlands spearfishing is apparently already forbidden. Fences between people and 'reserves' are starting to appear. Maybe we'll need to start paying to experience nature in the near future, like Americans have to do at their 'national parks'. It's getting burocrazy.

 

[artiz]

Perhaps spearfishing people can draw a comparison between dear hunting and spearfishing. It's a bit more likely that those lords, and some of the MP's are into that, or know fortunate backers who are into that.

I agree prevention is better then a cure.

Maybe UKIP will stand up for the cultural aspects of the UK, part of is hunting gathering and spearfishing? Do you have an old spearfish history in the UK?

Isn't it unbelievable that so many people in the EU do not want the EU, and whole nations voted against it, and still it goes on unabated?
Will people do anything for money, comfort and sense of safety?

Recently my underwater swimming was banned from the local pool, after 9 years of no incident, pleasant and appreciated use. Fear of laws is taking over from reason. I would have signed a disclaimer, but there was no room for any influence nor negotiation. Whilst I'm a taxpayer, and therefore partial owner of the public pool. I recognise the trend to more policies, and more confusion, fear, and selective enforcement.

In the Netherlands spearfishing is apparently already forbidden. Fences between people and 'reserves' are starting to appear. Maybe we'll need to start paying to experience nature in the near future, like Americans have to do at their 'national parks'. It's getting burocrazy.

Which came first Money or Politics? I reckon it was greed! I've heard through the grapevine that it's the central european countries like Germany, Holland, Belgium etc who dominate the European race for the EU fisheries funding pot. It is billions of euros of course and their respective euro mp's lead the way regarding conservation sector and marine research cash for their own national interests... not surprising but still detrimental and opposary to other european countries with large coast lines and enhanced fishing interests... and clearly in more need of the money. The stakes are high Kars and the only thing we appear to be able to do is to sit back in our 'I'm-alright-Jack-Lazee-Boy' armchairs and watch the show... capitalism will eventually eat itself... as the saying goes!

Big shame about your local pool Kars... hope you can find another one mate.

 

[Mike Bradshaw]

I think putting your soapbox away is probably the worst possible thing any of us should do right now... that enduring ethos of 'keeping it quite', 'don't rock the boat' etc is short-sighted and unintelligent... and always has been! The 'writing on the wall' is very clear but it doesn't mean we should just give up and slink away.



Rather than writing individually to our euro mp Mike shouldn't you British Spearfishing Association blokes get your own house in order first... whether we like it or not you are still the only official representation that spearfishing has in the UK? Having noticed that Steve Mullineaux has recently stepped down this year as your chairman I can only fear the worst now... besides ethics is the job of official/group representation... not individuals.
Sure UK spearos may be a small group but that doesn't mean we have nothing to bring to the negotiation table... what we do is unique and specialised and could provide immeasurable benefits to EU/Goverment fisheries monitoring and marine science in the future.
We need an association which represents ethical spearfishing's future in the UK... not 86 blokes who enjoy wiping out localised stocks of fish in a particular area during a days competition... its clearly not ethical as well as being overtly hypocritical... same goes for organised DB socials in the Channel Islands which wipe out specific, localised Mullet stocks.
Personally I agree with a lot of what you say Mike but any representation now at any official level where it might count (by the BSA) will be laughed at by the legislators... and rightly so. Even more perhaps when Labour gets in next year.
Instead of suggesting your own ethics on DB, perhaps you should be telling your new BSA chairman (and fellow members) that its high time for wholesale change regarding what the BSA should be representing to the public and future marine legislation discussions! You might want to sack your clueless and pernicious fisheries officer now as well!

Then again the BSA didn't listen 2 years ago when I first informed you all as a reluctant but paid up member that this particular legislation was coming... so why would you bother now?

Prevention will always be better than cure!

 

[Mike Bradshaw]

I agree the BSA should be consulted, but two points : at no time did the EU consult with the BSA . They appear to prefer to impose their own ideas in short timeframes to supress opposition. MEP,s will only respond to petitions and personal views sent to them ,the more the better chance any group will have . If we all sit back and wait for others to take action we are allowing the EU to do what they like.
I prefer to impose limits on myself rather than have some ill informed politician. People get the government they deserve , so if you don't fight and complain new laws will passed limiting individual freedoms and leaving the seas to the commercial fishing interests who have a great record of protecting the environment !!!!
The one bass per person rule was not passed this month but is still to be discussed sometime in the new year. If you have not made your views to your MEP now is a good time to keep up the pressure .
A happy new year to all on DB and lets hope they cut the idiots in Brussels instead of other more helpful areas.

Best regards
Mike

 

[Mike Bradshaw]

I and most I dive with never shoot bass under 45cm and, most of us have a personal limit
. ALL our comps have a 45cm minimum and, we run a comp where ONE bass can be weighed and it is well attended.



Common sense really.



Nothing wrong with night diving treated in a respectable manner and treated as 'foraging'. Making things like this LAW will open a can of worms I would rather leave closed. We often paddle out, during darkness, kitted out to dive the first light but, the law could argue you are night diving if you are on the water, kitted out etc. We fish for red mullet, flats, rays etc at night and rarely, if ever take bass but, if I chose too, I don't want some euro muppet telling me I cannot when they have no experience regards the sport nor impact.



I know very few people who spearfish in our waters using scuba so cannot comment. However, making assumptions regards someone else's pleasures and sport without proper research is foolhardy. Do you have any 'evidence' to suggest scuba divers fish in an unsustainable fashion ?



Completely agree.



Actually, do we know this to be a fact?

I and most I dive with never shoot bass under 45cm and, most of us have a personal limit
. ALL our comps have a 45cm minimum and, we run a comp where ONE bass can be weighed and it is well attended.



Common sense really.



Nothing wrong with night diving treated in a respectable manner and treated as 'foraging'. Making things like this LAW will open a can of worms I would rather leave closed. We often paddle out, during darkness, kitted out to dive the first light but, the law could argue you are night diving if you are on the water, kitted out etc. We fish for red mullet, flats, rays etc at night and rarely, if ever take bass but, if I chose too, I don't want some euro muppet telling me I cannot when they have no experience regards the sport nor impact.



I know very few people who spearfish in our waters using scuba so cannot comment. However, making assumptions regards someone else's pleasures and sport without proper research is foolhardy. Do you have any 'evidence' to suggest scuba divers fish in an unsustainable fashion ?



Completely agree.



Actually, do we know this to be a fact?

Yup I researched extensively but I could have missed one!

 

[Andrew the fish]

...
Recently my underwater swimming was banned from the local pool, after 9 years of no incident, pleasant and appreciated use. Fear of laws is taking over from reason. I would have signed a disclaimer, but there was no room for any influence nor negotiation. Whilst I'm a taxpayer, and therefore partial owner of the public pool. I recognise the trend to more policies, and more confusion, fear, and selective enforcement.
.

I was similarly banned from one public pool where I was practicing underwater laps. I can understand, I was stupid doing it all by myself with no safety. But then there is one pool in a big city where freedivers as a club arranged for practice times and have a portion of pool all to themselves. Rules here in BC are essentially the same as everywhere else, no breath hold diving in public pool, UNLESS this is an organized practice session with specifically arranged sets of rules and so on. I bet you could probably get the same agreement with your pool. Club has more weight then one lone enthusiast.

 

[KILIC]

Thanks for details.