New sport - scooter free diving?

[ricki]

Nothing new about free diving with scooters, been around for decades. I used to play myself with DPVs and breathhold drops in the 1970's. Guys were probably doing long before that time too.

Despite all that, IT SEEMS NEW. There's playing and then there is doing new things or perhaps old things better. It might be free diving more efficiently, with technique developments and better scooters. I know there are mixed feelings about it but the sit on top aspect of the Apollo is a deal maker for me. I think X-Scooter has developed an add on to make theirs sit on top as well. Only seen it in a video never in person. Sit on top has a lot going for it particularly when shooting pictures/video. Hands free and minute position control through unconscious fin steering are the way to go in my opinion. I wouldn't go back to a conventional scooter tow setup myself at this point despite using that system for over 15 years previously.

The mobility and freedom are amazing both in lateral and vertical dives. I am an average free diver and yet the boost in capability is sure a lot of fun. A scooter is the only way many wrecks in deeper water can be dived in this area, there is too much current for conventional diving. There are downsides and cautions of course, things like planning for and coping with power failures, DCS issues, UW collisions, etc.. Still, all types of diving have problems, contingencies, technological and technique solutions and management strategies. As you are practicing something like apnea at rest, it is easy to achieve more than practical with fins and without pushing that hard. For this later reason the degree of safety "might" exceed conventional fin swimming in some dives?

I am still learning about free diving with scooters but the more I do it, the more I like it. Something addictive about it. There are a lot of videos showing dives on a variety of sites at: [ame=http://fksa.org/forumdisplay.php?f=92]Something Rich And Strange ... Diving Tales From The Water Underworld - FKA Kiteboarding Forums[/ame] Not pushing anything but the novelty of scooter free diving but if I were in retail or instruction, I would take a hard look at it. One thing is for sure, doing this without proper training and preparation it has the potential to be particularly dangerous. With proper preparation and technique, different story I think.

Does anyone else feel this way about scooter free diving at this point?

Thanks,
Rick

 

[cdavis]

Ricki, what you are doing with scooters takes freediving with them to a level I certainly never conceived of. You could justifiably call it new.

Had not thought of it from the commercial point of view, but you have a point. The scuba money has always been in the gear. If somebody could develop the scooter/freediving instruction idea, they have a way to make some serious $ selling gear. That might open up a whole new set of freediving instructors/instruction. Not sure I'm in love with the ramifications, but maybe that's progress.

Connor

It is fabulous. Just the little I've done was wonderful.

 

[Old Man Dave]

I have been thinking about getting a scooter. I have been looking at scooters that tow the diver. I didn't realise there were what you've called sit-ons. Do you have more info on these and how you attach to them and how you control them?

Dave.

 

[efattah]

There are several problems with high power scooters for freediving:

- You go way faster than a scuba diver, especially with a strong scooter. This can be dangerous -- I was once ascending with a high speed scooter, on the side of a wreck, and my head struck an overhanging piece of metal. It nearly knocked me out cold. A scuba diver, traveling more slowly, would have a smaller impact.

- The high speed ascent is horror for DCS -- with those types of ascent speeds, I think the depth needs to be limited to 20m MAXIMUM. Plus, upon surfacing, I would get vertigo from un-equal de-equalization of my ears.

- The fast descent speed can burst your eardrums in the early phase of the dive.

Despite that, they can be pretty fun, I circumnavigated the entire HMCS Mackenzie at 35m on a single breath hold with a scooter.

 

[ricki]

Hello Dave,

Had a Tekna for many years, went through three rebuilds before it was time to replace it. It was a good scooter but tow behind in design. I used it with a bridle when SCUBA diving and with a PVC tee seat for easy dismounting when free diving. Went through several Seadoos in more recent years, gave up on them due to low build quality particularly the Explorer (went through four of them all with fabrication defects).

I rented an Apollo Evolution through Dive Tech on Grand Cayman for free diving on the wall there. It was an incredible experience and my first exposure to a sit on top design scooter. There's a video about that at: [ame=http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=4615]VIDEO - Deeper Scooter Free Diving The Cayman Wall - FKA Kiteboarding Forums[/ame]

The video quality is fairly poor but there are some still shots of the scooter in there.

There are a lot of scooter free diving videos at: [ame=http://fksa.org/forumdisplay.php?f=92]Something Rich And Strange ... Diving Tales From The Water Underworld - FKA Kiteboarding Forums[/ame]

There is a recent one where I have some footage of another diver on the scooter to give you a better idea of operation. It also includes some pretty nice dolphin footage at: [ame=http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=8720]Diving With The Dolphins Of Sataya (Dolphin Reef), Red Sea - A Video - FKA Kiteboarding Forums[/ame] If it wasn't for the scooter I probably would have had about a minute or two combined video max. Fortunately, it seems the dolphins found it interesting enough to stay around for a while. Being able to swim with them submerged for what seemed several hundred feet at times was a unique experience. Like joining the pod all be it temporarily. A still from the video appears below:

I am riding the scooter in sit on top mode here.

A typical tow behind bridle setup for comparison. I used something similar for beach dives to the 90 ft. ledge off Deerfield years back. You actually would have some upper body fatigue after a while from just steering particularly in current after an extended run.

Steering is extremely easy and response using fins. You don't even think about it after a while, can do 360s, barrel rolls, effortlessly. The power on the Apollo Evolution is applied by pulling up on a rod secured to the side of the saddle. This is one potential problem area as you need to push the rod down to kill the motor. In theory, the scooter might run off without you should you separate. I put in a simple deadman turnoff on mine consisting of a nylon line connected to a quick disconnect and weak link to my belt. Another issue is if you hit, you hit head first. I've done a lot of wrecks, penetrations, etc. to where this hasn't been a problem, yet! Still, it is something to be careful about, even thought about wearing a helmet for limited protection on wrecks, sinks, etc.. Despite all this, wouldn't go back to a tow behind design lightly at all. If you're a diving instructor, Apollo even has a discount program.

 

[ricki]

Thanks for your input Connor, it is good to have your perspective. It is hard to describe the joy and freedom of dropping down and doing excursions over major portions of wrecks, walls even reefs. My favorite are still wrecks given the large quantity available off here. It is a blast to drop on walls though. Tried a blue hole but have to confess some hesitation to go much into the H2S layer and diminished viz.. The sink necked down at around that level making colliding with the side wall under power a possibility. As you are sitting on it, it is somewhat akin to fin swimming as steering comes from below. You can use your hands for steering particularly more rapid turns otherwise you are pretty much free to use them or not for whatever.

Like a lot of us, I started diving quite a while back. People crave new things, scooter free diving although old sure does offer a wealth of new sensations and capabilities. I say it makes you like Aquaman and in some ways, it does just that. Nothing is perfect, there are new risks and procedures, still it can be rewarding.

On the commercial side, I hear you and sympathize with your misgivings. I keep doing these videos and really do feel some formal training is in order for folks that may want to try it. Not just the nuts and bolts but expanded physics, physiology, DCS considerations, scooter selection, maintenance, limited trouble shooting, battery care, confined space issues, approaches to buddy diving, routine power management, emergency scenarios and management including loss of power at depth and a great deal more. Some I've talked to may not see it as needing that comprehensive degree of treatment. Not sure I agree however. I've learned that over time in most activities, things will go wrong. Best to try to manage it as best you can, in advance.

Other experiences and views out there? I have a number of videos still to process that show off the freedom and mobility of this approach to free diving.

Rick

 

[ricki]

Excellent points Eric, thank you for raising them. The Apollo Evolution has a variable pitch prop with three settings. I use it on the mid setting for shallow, easy diving and the first for deeper stuff or when in current. Beyond that there are about eight incremental settings on the power rod you pull to turn the unit on. I find the high power setting almost too fast at times and cut it back. It can aggravate equalization at times with minor congestion. Certainly in confined space areas also if there is a current running on a wreck and you turn down current you can really accelerate suddenly. The Evolution doesn't have the speed of some of the higher speed units I think you are referring to either. For drops to around 40 m. or less the Apollo performance seems adequate and at about half the price or less of the more powerful and faster units I've read about. It does have an ABS shell, wouldn't want to drop it or slam into anything very hard with it though. Again, impressions will vary, that is what I am looking for at this point.

I find extra care is necessary in poor visibility, add higher current and it can become sufficiently technical and risky to where it really isn't any fun. Then again, how would you free dive a wreck conventionally in such conditions anyway?

Wow, I had to look up the HMCS Mackenzie, that is over twice the LOA of 111 m or probably around 250 m perhaps more and at 35 m. You really are Aquaman! The mobility scooters can provide is amazing and for very accomplished free divers only more so..

I would be particularly cautious with the high speed models for the reasons you detail. Some folks have a safety stop at the end of the day at around 5 m with O2 or at least air to aid off gassing. I think you mentioned in another thread on this subject, stopping at around 10 m and ascending particularly slowly during more extreme profiles.

Thank you for your views on this,
Rick