No change in Dynamic Range with Fin Size ??

[Erman]

All,
I have been training in the pool for some time. I am mostly swimming freestyle with 5-to-1, 8-to-1, 10-to-1 breathing pyramid with hand weights, and some leg kicks with training fins. These fins are very short, 3-4 inches beyond the toe's. Totally, I swim about 1500 meters 4-5 times a week.
Toward the end, I do 25 meter dynamics with these short fins in freestyle kicks with decreasing rest times in between. Also, before I get out of the pool, I do couple of 50 meters and quickly get back to work before boss gets upset
Anyways, I decided to take my Cressi 2000HFs to the pool and give it a try. I was reluctant because of the looks and questions I will be getting. Anyways, my expectation was with freediving fins I would easily do somewhere around 75-80 meters, as I could easily do 50 meters with the crappy training fins. Well, to my dismay I found that they did not help with range but just speed. I tried dolphin kick with freedive fins, which I found to be easier and more fun, but that did not change the results also...

Is this normal ? What am I doing wrong ? Also, anybody can comment on better dynamic exercise routine ? Can anyone suggest documents to read on efficient kicking techniques or movies, etc ?

Thanx

Erman

 

[gianpaoloc]

Look at the aida world records with and without fins: 175m without - 212 with (same person, BTW). These figures are so "close" they already answer your question. By looking at those numbers you can expect as much as 20% improvement by using fins (from 50 to 60 m. in your case). Also observe that for some people (like Tom Sietas, who owns the record) monofin, which in principle should be more efficient, does not provide the best performance, which is obtained by using bi-fins. Obtaining the best means finding the "right" balance between energy, i.e., oxygen, consumption and total dive time. This balance depends, I think, on so many factors that is very personal. In any case you should not expect the differences you mention (from 50 to 90 meters).

Constant-weight is a different matter, but again the difference is not so big: currently it is around 30%.

Bye
G.

 

[naiad]

I find the same - my distances with and without fins are not very different - 44m with and 40 without. This is mostly because my legs get tired very easily, and without fins the work is shared between my arms and legs. In fact, my PB without fins was done with arms only, without using my legs.

Because of this, I don't get much improvement from using long fins. I go much faster but get tired more quickly, so the distance covered is about the same.

Lucia

 

[Erman]

naiad & gianpaoloc

Thanx for the feedback. I think in the end laws of conservation plays a big role. Same distance, hence energy needed is equal. But the work done and speed depends on the fin size or perhaps technique. Then, if one is equally efficient (or equally inefficient), fins or w/o fins should not make significant difference.

The pool I am using is pretty shallow 1.50 m max, and I find that turns consume a lot of energy. Any tips or tricks, that u can provide.

Thanx

Erman

 

[naiad]

It might be worth experimenting with the speed, as some people find it easier to cover the distance fast and thus take less time, while others prefer to go slowly and use less energy.

I hope you are being supervised by someone experienced when you are training.

Lucia

 

[cdavis]

Erman, I think you might find that technique changes with fin style might make quite a difference in dynamic distance. In my pool work, I switch back and forth between short stiff, body surfing fins, Cressi 2000 hfs and Specialfins Matrix in Spora pockets. It takes a few days to adjust to each type of fin and that adjustment makes a difference in how far I can go. The changes needed to go from Cressis to Specialfins are more subtle and take longer to achieve. In general, I can go much farther, almost 50%, with long fins. Interestingly, my dynamic with short fins is little different from no fins. However, I don't do enough of either of these disiplies to mean much.

Connor

 

[fpernett]

I was using Cressi 2000HF for around 7 years, and decide to change to C4 Falcon 80. The first day in the pool, with the falcon's, was awful. I expect at least to do the same than with my Cressi's, but no. I did least. It was a problem with technique, and it take times to adjust. With Long Bi-fins I recommend to take the slow approach. With Carbon fins, it's more important. The things have improved since the first time. My PB was 100 meters, and now, with the C4, I can make 6 repetitions on that distance. That is a great difference.

 

[Walrus]

Hi Erman,
like the others said it will probably take a bit of time and practise before the fin starts working for you. If you stick with the cressi's and practise lots of repeat dynamics over a few weeks you will probably get more used to them, maybe build up a little leg strength too. The hf's are a pretty stiff fin. I have to say for dynamic in a pool it usually goes better with a softer fins then you would use for constant

Cheers,
Wal

 

[Erman]

Thanx to everybody who pitched in on my question.

Some Updates:

What I recently found is if I go fast with 2000HFs I am feeling better at the end of 50 m dynamics.

I tried in sequence slow-moderate- and fast speeds, and at the end of 50 m, I feel best with the fast speed. However, with the relaxed speed, I feel very good till the 25 m turn, and that darn turn eats up a lot of energy/oxygen in a 4-5 feet pool ! ( I cant do a swim flip with those fins )

With slow relaxed speeds, I start having contractions at around 30-35 meters, and this hardly changes with the faster speed. But, at the end I have less contractions at 50 meters with faster speed and feel better . I think that freediving fins start being more efficient when one goes at higher speeds...

BTW, today I did about 60 meters with fast speed at the end my training so I feel good about myself.

Another thing I realized is at the beginning of my pool exercise I feel like I don't need to breathe at all for about 50-75 meters during my freestyle warm up session (5-to-1 breaths for 300 meters). Perhaps, I should try PBs at the very beginning...

BTW, to answer naiads question about being supervised. Although there a lot of other swimmeers using the pool, I dont have active supervision. It is very hard for me to have someone there at lunch breaks to check on me. BTW, i do not push hard on myself and listen to my body. If I don't feel good, I skip dynamic training and just go with swimming and leg training...

Care to comment ?

Erman

 

[naiad]

BTW, today I did about 60 meters with fast speed at the end my training so I feel good about myself.

Another thing I realized is at the beginning of my pool exercise I feel like I don't need to breathe at all for about 50-75 meters during my freestyle warm up session (5-to-1 breaths for 300 meters). Perhaps, I should try PBs at the very beginning...

BTW, to answer naiads question about being supervised. Although there a lot of other swimmeers using the pool, I dont have active supervision. It is very hard for me to have someone there at lunch breaks to check on me. BTW, i do not push hard on myself and listen to my body. If I don't feel good, I skip dynamic training and just go with swimming and leg training...

Well done with the 60m!

I find that it is easier to do a PB at the beginning of a dynamic training session.

I think it is better to be supervised. I understand that it is difficult to find an opportunity for this, and I sometimes train alone, however I don't recommend it, and if you do, it should only be for training within your limits, not for PBs. I have rescued people with sambas after they said they were not going to push themselves.

Dive safe

Lucia

 

[Erman]

Hi,

Some updates, after battling a cold / sinus, I started training yesterday. Guess what ? Today I was able to do 75 meters dynamic at the end of my training session. I was sharing my lane with a lady swimmer who was pretty spoked of my training and decided not to not push myself too hard, but just hard enough :hmm . I tried to time myself at the turns so that I dont hit her with my fins in this darn shallow pool.

I could have tried a second run after 2-3mins but decided this much excitement is enough for the day...

Thanx

Erman