No contractions?

[farawayheart]

I used to swim alot as a child but gave up and have only started again this year. I've fallen in love with it and since around August have been trying to improve underwater swimming, and my longest breathold at the moment is 1.10, and underwater swim length 60ft; I'll hold my breath randomly throughout the week [am soon going to start the reccomended training chart posted somewhere else on this forum] out of water, however only go swimming a couple of times because I have a very hard time finding someone to come with me.

I've read up alot, on here mainly, for tips and warnings, etc, but I don't get the contractions. I'll be needing air, but no contractions. Sometimes I'll get VERY soft ones, but I'm not sure if that's just me moving my belly trying to wake them up!
Am I missing something? Do I just need to bear with it a bit longer? How do I know when my body really does need air and it's not just me wimping out? [I'll basically just start breathing again when I feel like I really need air and can't bear the feeling any longer...]
I feel like a fool xD

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I'm just a freedive spearfisherman rather than a pure freediver, but I've never felt one. If I did, I'd feel like it was a near death experience.

 

[DHodges34]

My pb out of water is 4:07 and I've never felt one...I'm with Bill I'd probably flip out.

 

[azapa]

its a shame if you really don't have one. your dive response really kicks in after that point, and HR slows way down. Try to feel one in controlled conditions like a dry static. Sit on your bed, shirt off (sorry) watching your upper stomach. You will see the spasm.

I agree it is very hard to tell the dif. between those "urge to breathe hicups" and a real contraction. I have been (only) diving for a bit over a year now and find it very hard to tell sometimes. Let us know what you discover.

 

[naiad]

I sometimes get them and sometimes don't. If I have been training a lot, they are less likely to happen. I have sometimes done a max static without getting any. There is just that urge to breathe, without any actual contractions.

 

[Bill]

The more I learn about contractions, the less I understand. I modified the CO2 tables a little to help control them and they might work for you to trigger them.
Lie down, let your mind wander and don't move a muscle for about 15 minutes. It's difficult to get the proper hold time without a few experiments but if you then take two or three deep breaths and hold until you are very uncomfortable, you'll probably be close. When you start to breathe, take seven breaths (speed or time doesn't care) and hold for the same time as your first hold (later you'll be able to count contractions and forget the watch). Do the same for six, five, four, three, two and one breaths. When you get this far, you can do another one breath hold or just exhale slowly for a minute (that should defeat contractions) and up the hold time a few days later.
After fifty years of diving to watch the wildlife and bring home dinner, I built a mental block at four minutes. Two short sessions with good instructors removed the block, in six months I was doing sixes and shortly after that, the contractions started.
Welcome to static, but maybe you should ask yourself if you really want to travel this road.

 

[farawayheart]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. =)

Welcome to static, but maybe you should ask yourself if you really want to travel this road.

Sorry, what do you mean by that?

I'm not really sure what road I do want to take. I just want to improve and be able to stay underwater [as in, swimming, not just static & lying still] as long as possible. I assumed that becoming better at static, would also improve on under-water length?

 

[Bill]

Static is a game by itself. There is very little correlation between it and dynamic or constant balance. Of course, control of breathing and the ability to relax will help all three events but the old saying; 'you get better at what you train' is still true. Sometimes I think that dry static training is only good if you can't get in the water.

 

[flying_spanner]

I don't really feel any noticable contractions either. I do however get the ones in my throat when I haven't let my mind wander properly, and think about time, or breathing, then wammo my throat starts feeling like three frogs are doing star-jumps inside!!!

I have a PB static of 4mins 20sec with no contractions that I remember. I too am worried to really push myself when diving as I don't really know my bodies signals that well yet.

I do however get tunnel vision when I've pushed too far, (something I don't want to experience again as I nearly blacked out while swimming alone a few months back, some of you read my thread on that.)

Maybe my fear of a shallow water blackout is really what's stopping me, and not the simple fact of not knowing my signals........

 

[naiad]

Static is a game by itself. There is very little correlation between it and dynamic or constant balance. Of course, control of breathing and the ability to relax will help all three events but the old saying; 'you get better at what you train' is still true. Sometimes I think that dry static training is only good if you can't get in the water.

I agree. My dynamic does improve if I do a lot of static training, but nowhere near as much as I expected it to. Dry static does improve my pool static times, but it does nothing to improve my tolerance to cold water, so my pool static still lags behind by about 1:00-1:30.

 

[farawayheart]

So I started holding my breath for longer, [I think I just didn't have as much motivation before, and wimped out quicker] but my stomach does start to move up and down as if I'm breathing. And before I've held on for longer, my new record is 1.30
I've also noticed that if I keep holding until i really struggle, my body goes strangely hot. And that when I'm breath-holding, time seems to go alot quicker. Are there any particular signs I need to watch out for to know if I'm holding my breath too long for me?

 

[fishyak]

i have a pb breathhold,dry, static, of 3:47 and i start to get contractions at about 3:00 and they last for about 20 secs (usually thorugh the end) i have had a few times where they relax again and i can hold my breath for another 10-20 seconds. how many contractions are normal? are these just the abovementioned "breathing hiccups"? thanks

Gabe

 

[octpora]

I've also noticed that if I keep holding until i really struggle, my body goes strangely hot. And that when I'm breath-holding, time seems to go alot quicker. Are there any particular signs I need to watch out for to know if I'm holding my breath too long for me?[/QUOTE]

Someone mentioned tunnel vision- that precedes blackout of course. And too far is relative when you mention dry static as you will blackout, but then begin to breath again 99.99% of the time with likely no lasting damage.

But you mention "really struggle" and that sounds like effort as opposed to self control which may involve not struggling. Perhaps the struggling accounts for an increased awareness of body heat because you have not relaxed and are in effect straining, perhaps increasing your heart rate or blood pressure. If you are trying only to improve your static time this is counterproductive. Also for your awareness of your body function, each muscle unduly tense inhibits some of your ability to 'feel'. Your perception of time changing might well be a positive thing as it may, if used properly, lead to a higher sense of awareness. If you can feel as if time speeds up, why not make it slow down in your perception, and maybe even avoid watching the clock during the exercise. Unless of course you have only got 15 minutes for your hold- don't want to get fired for breaking static records.

 

[breath_holder]

it is very hard to tell the dif. between those "urge to breathe hicups"

Is there a way to tell the difference or are they the same?

 

[azapa]

thats the whole point of the later part of this thread: it is very hard to tell the difference. A contraction is a diaphragm spasm. the urge to breath is triggered by other factors initially. In one year non-stop training I am still unsure in the water when I am really getting contractions, but I have realized it's a lot later than I think. I have been so over conscious of all these signals recently that my HR has gone up due to worrying about them and my apnea is actually worse than 3 months ago! Go figure...

 

[octpora]

Get contractions while giving birth to a new record

 

[paulbonomo]

Whether you intend to freedive to varying depths or to swim underwater lengths of a swimming pool, the best way to increase your down-time is to increase your cardiovascular fitness by exercise which in turn will increase lung efficiency and capacity.

As everyone knows, these "contractions" exist for a reason: to signal you that the level of oxygen in your blood is dangerously low. This condition is called "hypoxia". Many freedivers use the technique of mild hyperventilation to reduce or eliminate these annoying contractions, which can increase your down-time, but also increase your risk of "shallow water black-out".

The brain's response to hypoxia is to render the individual unconscious in a vain attempt to make them breathe. This happens because of the way the brain monitors how much oxygen and carbon dioxide there is in the blood. The brain has two sensors at the base of the brain, monitoring the level of gasses in the blood entering the brain. The carbon dioxide sensor responds to high levels by stimulating the person to breathe.

If there is a high level of carbon dioxide and a low level of oxygen, the brain comes to the conclusion that there is oxygen available, otherwise there would not be a high level of carbon dioxide, and overrides the conscious effort of breath-holding by first causing the diaphragm to contract, and finally by rendering the individual unconscious. This is fine on land where most humans spend their time, but if unconsciousness occurs in or underwater it can be fatal.

So the "bottom" line is: Be careful

 

[flying_spanner]

I am by no means an expert on this subject.

But I think this thread shows that there are no hard and fast rules on our body's signals to tell us when we've had enough. What works for others may be totally different for you.

I personally haven't noticed abdominal contractions while doing statics, dynamics, or diving for schallops in 16m of water.

But I do get all the muscles in my throat tensing up If I think about breathing in any way or form instead of thinking to myself "you're fine, be calm, quietly paddle for the surface" like I should be doing.

At times I've found myself so worried about my body's signals that I'm all tense and as a direct result my dives are a real struggle.

If I stop and take a minute to totally relax on the surface and "just let it happen", The next dive I'm down long enough to scare the pants off the boatman keeping an eye on me. (this happend just the other day).

So keep training and learning your own signals and you'll be more comfortable In the water, but don't worry about them it's sooooo counter productive.

As always when exploring your limits USE A BUDDY.

And most importantly startle as many SCUBA divers at depth as you can!!! The look on their face is priceless!!!!

 

[chrismar]

Contractions are a personal thing. Some get them early, some late. Some lucky bastards (Ant, I'm looking at you!) don't really get them at all. They indicate nothing unless you know your body well. For me, they come on at 1:40 give or take 5s on a no breatheup, no warmup static, 40m in no fins dynamic and 45-50m in dynamics with bifins. If they come earlier, I'm either nervous or full of CO2 (short interval training or underwater hockey training) and if they come late I've probably been breathing too heavily on the surface.

But until you know more about your body, they mean very little.

ps: For reference, my PBs are: 5:56 static, 111m no fins and 151 dynamics.

 

[Mullins]

Whether you intend to freedive to varying depths or to swim underwater lengths of a swimming pool, the best way to increase your down-time is to increase your cardiovascular fitness by exercise which in turn will increase lung efficiency and capacity.

There doesn't seem to be a very strong correlation (if any) between cardiovascular fitness and freediving ability. I know some very fit people who will blackout after relatively short/shallow dives, and some unfit people who are excellent freedivers.

As everyone knows, these "contractions" exist for a reason: to signal you that the level of oxygen in your blood is dangerously low. This condition is called "hypoxia". Many freedivers use the technique of mild hyperventilation to reduce or eliminate these annoying contractions, which can increase your down-time, but also increase your risk of "shallow water black-out".

Contractions are caused mainly be C02, not hypoxia. They typically occur while your blood oxygen level is still high.

If there is a high level of carbon dioxide and a low level of oxygen, the brain comes to the conclusion that there is oxygen available, otherwise there would not be a high level of carbon dioxide

Why would this be the case? A high C02 level does not indicate the availability of 02. It just indicates you haven't been breathing.