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No reflection?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

jrgian

New Member
Dec 2, 2003
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No reflection?
All good?
Is Normal, France and Switzerland are not present?
Is Normal, best athletes AIDA are absent?
Is incredible as all it happens without some serious REFLECTION.
Salutes from Gianfranco

Excused for my English
 

samdive

Mermaid, Musician and Marketer
Nov 12, 2002
3,221
278
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you will find some good reflections in the Thanks thread

no reflection on the fact that so many teams did not come? Obviously it is sad that not everyone could/would participate however those of us who were there just gone on with it and enjoyed competing against each other. Yes we acknowledge that lots of the greats were absent but hey we had fun showing each other what we could do and we couldn't spend the whole time lamenting their absence

Lets hope those countries get their finances/visas/problems with AIDA/ fear of cold water (
;) ) sorted in time for the next one

Sam
 

joefox

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2001
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"Obviously it is sad that not everyone could/would participate "

Not everyone?

Ibiza 2001 => freedivers from 29 contries

Vancouver 2004 => freedivers from 11 countries (NOT 11 countries)

Good progression, if AIDA goes on like that in 5 years the game will be over.

Joefox
 

fpernett

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2001
832
102
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I think this happen because this was the first championship out of European Continent, and most of the freediving countries are from there.
I think the main problem was economical, not the will to participate.
 

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
4,731
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Originally posted by joefox
"
Good progression, if AIDA goes on like that in 5 years the game will be over.
oefox


As opposed to, say, the last CMAS International Competition?
Erik Y.
 
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Walrus

Oz freediver
Oct 3, 2001
693
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Well it was not the first big AIDA team freediving competition that was held out of Europe. It was not called a "world cup" but in 2002 they had the AIDA "Pacific cup" in Hawaii. I competed on the Australian team. They had 19 men's teams so nearly twice the attendance of the Canadian world championships. They did have France, Venezuala and Switzerland competing. Check out the team standings, 7 teams were not from Europe. The top 3 women's teams were USA, Japan, Canada, not Europe. The top 3 mens were Venezuela, Sweden and Japan.

http://www.freedivecanada.com/comp/results/kona2002/standings.html

I know in our case part of the drawcard was that it was close by, and therefore cheap airfares. The other part was that a lot of freedivers look at it also as a holiday. For us to go diving in Hawaii in warm clear tropical water was a big bonus. I had friends that competed in Canada and although some found the water a little cold for their liking they all had a great time in a well organised competition.

I think that competitions can still have a big attendance if they are held outside of Europe. Look at the number of countries now competing from South America, then add USA, Canada, Japan, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand. I've got friends on the Japan team and they said they are seriously trying to set up a world AIDA championship in Okinawa, Japan for 2006. I think that would get a big attendance as it's about halfway for both the European coutries, American countries and close for the pacific countries. Add to that calm protected water, warm and clear and you have great tropical conditions too. I also agree with Erik. While a lot of freedivers don't agree on all of the AIDA rules, it's still the only one that runs international competitions so what choice is there ?

Cheers,
Wal
 
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fpernett

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2001
832
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Sorry for say B/S
My point was that for Europe competition more countries can assist because travel is cheaper between europe. Didn't mind to said anything else.

I think breath-holding is afeccting people, the insults are becoming more usual, than before, in this forum.
 

Walrus

Oz freediver
Oct 3, 2001
693
77
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Oops,
sorry Frank I didn't mean it towards you I was just talking in general. Will edit my post ;)
Just didn't like the idea of someone saying, well freediving in Europe is more important then the rest of the world so should only have competitions there. There probably are still more countries that compete from Europe but think the sport is growing faster outside so is starting to catch up.
At the moment it's very easy for European freedivers to compete in each others countries so there is plenty of oportunity for competitions, and also easier for record attempts. So I would really like to see much more competitions held outside of Europe. I think that's only fair. If we could find somewhere in between so it's not too far from Europe, or the America's and the pacific would be good too..... :)

Cheers,
Wal
 

joefox

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2001
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Erik, why do you worry about CMAS comps?

The JB world championship will be held on 12-19 september in Croatia, but I was not trying to say that AIDA is bad and CMAS is good. Moreover, CMAS comps are starting now... and you should know that collecting people from several countries is far more easy than to gather national federations. Anyway, if you want to know how the CMAS WC goes, you should also know where to point your mouse. Actually, I still don't know if CMAS WC will be a success or a failure, but this is not the point.

I think that when Kirk Krack and the other guys of the CAFA got the championship (the other candidate was Egypt, wasn't it?) they started working really hard to set up the best competition they could. I guess they expected and deserved a different partecipation, and if I were CAFA I would never organize another WC in the future. I would feel... sort of betrayed.
Maybe the economic problem should have been taken into account when it was time to decide between Canada and the other candidate?

Anyway, if you're honest you must admit that this WC -despite all the efforts of CAFA crew- was a half-failure.

Little partecipation => poor results

I can't read any consideration of this kind in any coverage, it's like there's a widespread judgment homogenization.

Joefox
 

joefox

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2001
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Walrus, I was almost forgetting to ask you something: have you ever been to Japan?

I have... hey man, prepare a LOT OF MONEY for the WC in 2006. I repeat: A LOT OF MONEY.

Joe
 

Walrus

Oz freediver
Oct 3, 2001
693
77
0
Dude,
I'm from Australia, everywhere I go is expensive !
In the Cyprus and Hawaii comps I was paying at least double what I do here for food and Accommodation. Canada would have been much the same. As far as I'm concerned there is no cheap country to visit. :(
 

joefox

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2001
131
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My wife is Australian, I know what you mean...
I live in Italy, but 've been also to Australia and USA... but Japan is really expensive... much more than everywhere else.

Joefox
 

fpernett

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2001
832
102
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Hey Walter excuses accepted ;)

I'm sure that our sport will grow in different places than europe, I believe that if we have more regional competitions the performances will get better. An example is Latin America there is Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela (very good freedivers), Brasil, Ecuador and posiblly Chile.
I imagine a World Cup as football with continental eliminations, at the beginning the strongest country will make the team, but with time anothers good freedivers will have their chance.

BTW, our country is a cheap place to visit. And have beatiful places to freedive.
An example the island I was born San Andres
 

bam bam

New Member
Sep 22, 2001
99
13
0
Joefox

I'm very insulted by you thinking that our performances in vancouver were poor! Everyone did what they could/needed, national records fell. So there were some great results.
 

joefox

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2001
131
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If you're happy with a 70 meters world champion in CB, it's your business.

Winning the CB WC with 70 meters is like winning the 100 mt run in 14 seconds.

Joefox
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
173
Joefox,

Don't neglect the effect of the conditions.

Ryuzo Shinomiya from Japan is a 90 meter diver, he tried 75m at the comp and blacked out.

Mandy dove 78m in Cayman and did 68m at the WC 2004.

Kaz has done 75-77m in Japan and did 60m.

Annabel has done 71m and did 52m.

So, don't judge the depths and say that's shallow. I bet if Carlos had come he would have done 85m. Martin is terrible in the cold, he probably would have made 60m.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

joefox

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2001
131
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Eric, I wrote an article and pointed out the conditions, with cold water at 11°, but this doesn't explain the absence of most of the best nations/freedivers, including the champions.

Anyway, if you're right, then AIDA should have predicted the poor partecipation and chosen another location.

Joefox
 

tylerz

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2002
733
114
133
I think there are some fair expressions in this thread but the problem seems to be that we are expecting this should have one answer. Well it has dominant answers and less dominant answers.

1. First ever cold water large-scale competition. Some people and teams were obviously against this from the beginning and some probably changed their mind as time went on. Should this have been considered from the beginning? Yes, but I do not think that should necessarily have dictated whether the competition would be held or not in this location. Why? Because at some point it would only be fair to start the alternating of world competition between hot, warm, and cold locations. This was the first time, so there was much speculation and negativity that affected the results. However, after hearing results from competitors with their experiences and appreciation for the diving environment, I think a lot of those prejudices will fall. I was there first hand asking many competitors about their feelings towards diving in our colder (19-21C surface) and beautiful waters, and the results were all positive other than the odd, "But it is cold! ;)". This event I believe has set the stage for the inclusion of cold water events in the future, without the hesitancy experienced during this one. That is a big step, I say. The future success of cold water world events will have been made possible by the successful aspects of this competition.

2. Expensive travel for everyone. Let's face it, Canada is expensive for everybody, except the americans, to arrive at. Although I agree that other places are expensive once you are there and some were expensive for certain countries, that does not change the fact that expense comes into the minds of those who are competing. If there are other factors bugging their minds, then expense can become the deciding factor. Hawaii, as mentioned, did not have any of the negativity felt towards diving conditions, plus people think of it as a wonderful holiday destination. Canada is much more specific in who it attracts for the same experience.

3. Statistics can not be drawn from a single event irregularity to predict the future of similar events. Independant of all other factors, this could have also been a year with a slight slump, no matter where it was to be held. We had the BIOS competition immediately before worlds. That is a big decision for many. Participate at one or the other. One is close to home and independant, the other far, cold, and team. A lot of people chose one or the other, not both. There is always going to be fluxuations in attendance, even if it is held in the same place, under the same circumstances.


Conclusion:

To me it looks pretty obvious why attendance was lower than expected. I do not believe this means the competition was not successful. I think it has done a wonderful thing for the mindset towards this sport. If you are going to compare people's abilities, compare them on equal grounds. Cold people have to go to warm waters, warm people have to go to cold waters.
 
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tylerz

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2002
733
114
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I as well think the suggestion that having top athletes at each competition as a measure of success, is a poor understanding of our community sport and the nature of a team event.

Community:

Bam Bam, hit part of this on the head, by suggesting that the national performances were outstanding relative speaking and set the stage for excitement and appreciation.

What many witnessed at this competition, also something not in the headlines, was the fact that many non-top competitors were encouraged to take part in this event and therefore, in a very short period of time, had large developments in performance. Why is this beneficial? The larger the gap between the top athletes and those not at the top, the less chance of witnessing new people with the potential to be at the top. It is more likely for those below the top to be motivated to really show their stuff, if they find themselves within shooting distance of the top. But often people are not even close and therefore they never even try.

Well that was not the case this year. A lot of divers showed up who were doing 10-20m increments on their unofficial PBs from no more than a year ago, some only 2 months prior. This means suddenly you have a bunch of divers that can have a taste of what is to come. I believe we will, because of this, be seeing a lot more challenge for the top divers and more excitement about who is new on the scene. This community likes to see people excited and supported to their potential. Sometimes this is helped by the top-athletes sitting a round out, since they may consistently take up the 3 seats available to participate every 2 years at world competitions.


Team Event:

Until now AIDA only hosts team events. The dynamics of a team event do not necessarily co-exist with top athletes. Generally they may, but there is no reason to expect them to. The point is that this event's focus is on the achievements of a team, which implicitly suggests a requirement of cooperation and effort together. Therefore we have to be prepared for the fact that the group of 3 may not be the top 3.
 

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
4,731
753
218
Originally posted by joefox
Erik, why do you worry about CMAS comps?

Anyway, if you're honest you must admit that this WC -despite all the efforts of CAFA crew- was a half-failure.

Little partecipation => poor results
Joefox

Joe, my only worry about a large CMAS competition is that there is no such thing. AIDA, warts and all, is the Big Cheese, whether we like it or not. The more competitions out there, the better. If there was a CMAS comp that I could go to, maybe I'd go. JB sounds fun to me, especially the spearo half of me. If there's a FREE comp I can go to, maybe I'll go. And if Kirk Krack, who is second to none in his organisational abilities in the freediving world, holds a comp through whatever agency, maybe I'll go.
There is a LOT more to being at a competition than the numbers amigo. A lot. The teams that couldn't/wouldn't come to Canada lost out, just as I did because I couldn't go. I can do half of a Nitsch/Stepanek CB dive, but I'd still line up against them if possible, for many reasons. If you dont understand why, then I don't know what else to say.
Respectfully,
Erik Y.
 
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