o2 co2 tables

[cameronb]

is there a thread on these somewhere on deeperblue?

 

[blueface]

is there a thread on these somewhere on deeperblue?

Training Tables

CO² Tables
CO² is the common trigger for the urge to breathe. CO² Tables are meant to increase your tolerance to high CO² Levels, you do this by decreasing resting periods before a breath hold. The breath holds in a CO² table are usually 50% of your personal record.

An example of a CO² Table:
1. ventilate 2:30 static 1:30
2. ventilate 2:15 static 1:30
3. ventilate 2:00 static 1:30
4. ventilate 1:45 static 1:30
5. ventilate 1:30 static 1:30
6. ventilate 1:15 static 1:30
7. ventilate 1:00 static 1:30
8. ventilate 1:00 static 1:30
total duration 25:15

O² Tables
O² Tables are meant to increase your tolerance to low O² Levels, you do this by increasing breath holds while keeping the resting periods the same. The last breath hold in an O² table is usually up to 80% of your personal record.

An example of an O² Table:
1.ventilate 2:00 static 1:00
2.ventilate 2:00 static 1:15
3.ventilate 2:00 static 1:30
4.ventilate 2:00 static 1:45
5.ventilate 2:00 static 2:00
6.ventilate 2:00 static 2:15
7.ventilate 2:00 static 2:30
8.ventilate 2:00 static 2:30
total duration 30:45

The CO² and O² tables can be modified to suit the divers will and feeling. I personally do these tables twice a week.

This was copied and pasted from "How to start freediving."

http://forums.deeperblue.com/beginner-freediving/64959-how-start-freediving.html

 

[5kgLifter]

When you're devising your own tables, due to breath-holds not being as long as those in the tables above etc, is there a particular way in which to work out the ventilation time between holds? Or is there no one set method for working it out?

 

[blueface]

When you're devising your own tables, due to breath-holds not being as long as those in the tables above etc, is there a particular way in which to work out the ventilation time between holds? Or is there no one set method for working it out?

You would have to experiment or else take a free diving course. I just work my way up to 4 minutes when doing o2 tables. That's about where my max is.

 

[Aldan]

You may find this helpful as well:
Static Tables

 

[5kgLifter]

I hope the original poster doesn't mind me posting this in the thread.

Unfortunately, even though it is the best idea, a free diving course is out of the question at present.

The link for the table calculations, I have one similar, and both of then work out the first two times on the O2 table as the same hold length, even if two separate times are entered in to the calculator, so there is an underlying problem with the programme…which means I sit and work out the O2 table by hand, definitely harder when times are lower, but I use the program to work out the CO2 table for me, but using the freeform table. My holds have increased from 40 seconds (max) 4 weeks ago, to 2:30 today, which will be the new max that I use to calculate next week’s table…when things slow up a bit, I will just check for a new max less frequently, but at the moment, it seems to be going in leaps and bounds, and having read some of the helpful comments on this site, I realise it’s probably because I’m not really pushing it; but I feel this is a better approach for a beginner anyway.


With my max, last week, being 2 minutes, do these seem reasonably worked out?

CO2
Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:00
Ventilate 1:30 Static 1:00
Ventilate 1:15 Static 1:00
Ventilate 1:00 Static 1:00
Ventilate 0:45 Static 1:00
Ventilate 0:30 Static 1:00
Ventilate 0:20 Static 1:00
Ventilate 0:15 Static 1:00

O2
Ventilate 1:00 Static 0:45
Ventilate 1:00 Static 1:00
Ventilate 1:00 Static 1:05
Ventilate 1:00 Static 1:10
Ventilate 1:00 Static 1:20
Ventilate 1:00 Static 1:25
Ventilate 1:00 Static 1:30
Ventilate 1:00 Static 1:36

Many thanks for any feedback on the above, on the O2, I prefer not to start much lower because it does not feel challenging any longer at much less than 1:00, which is nice.

 

[colinox]

Hi, I'm not an expert and possess no freediving qualifications but I do have a recent max of 5:01... Three months ago my max was about 3minutes so the tables and formula I use definitely work and should help you too. I found them here on DB so they're tried and tested, I just can't remember where they are! Anyway, here goes:

One thing which is immediately striking about your O2 table is the duration of each ventilation period... 1minute is not much time to recover from any moderately taxing breath-hold! The length of the ventilation periods should be just long enough to comfortably recover from the last hold and prepare for the next. I use 2minutes and view that as a reasonable figure for most people. So, the biggest change I would make in creating a table for you now would be to have 2minutes ventilation, not 1, between each hold.

The way I set out to produce O2 tables is to start from the end and work backwards. The formula I use has the last 2 reps being 80% of your personal best, and of equal length. With your best hold being 2:30, 80% of that would make the 7th and 8th holds 2minutes each. You said you don't want to start much lower than 1:00, so we'll use that as the starting point. I like to increase the holds by equal increments, and tying all those figures together produces a very neat O2 table, as follows:

1) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:00
2) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:10
3) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:20
4) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:30
5) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:40
6) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:50
7) Ventilate 2:00 Static 2:00
8) Ventilate 2:00 Static 2:00

If the last 2 holds are too long you can simply subtract 10seconds from each hold - ie start at 50seconds and finish at 1:50. Another way which may be better would be to make the first 2 holds of equal duration at 1minute, that way the table starts with a bit of a challenge but gives you the opportunity to settle into it more comfortably on the second 1minute hold. I know the final 2 holds still end up at 1:50 which is considerably higher than the figures in your table, but your PB is 2:30...! With twice as long to recover from each hold and prepare for the next I think you should manage 2minutes for both the 7th and 8th holds - or at least 1:50!

Please let us know what you decide to do and how you get on.

 

[5kgLifter]

Hi, I'm not an expert and possess no freediving qualifications but I do have a recent max of 5:01... Three months ago my max was about 3minutes so the tables and formula I use definitely work and should help you too. I found them here on DB so they're tried and tested, I just can't remember where they are! Anyway, here goes:

One thing which is immediately striking about your O2 table is the duration of each ventilation period... 1minute is not much time to recover from any moderately taxing breath-hold! The length of the ventilation periods should be just long enough to comfortably recover from the last hold and prepare for the next. I use 2minutes and view that as a reasonable figure for most people. So, the biggest change I would make in creating a table for you now would be to have 2minutes ventilation, not 1, between each hold.

The way I set out to produce O2 tables is to start from the end and work backwards. The formula I use has the last 2 reps being 80% of your personal best, and of equal length. With your best hold being 2:30, 80% of that would make the 7th and 8th holds 2minutes each. You said you don't want to start much lower than 1:00, so we'll use that as the starting point. I like to increase the holds by equal increments, and tying all those figures together produces a very neat O2 table, as follows:

1) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:00
2) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:10
3) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:20
4) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:30
5) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:40
6) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:50
7) Ventilate 2:00 Static 2:00
8) Ventilate 2:00 Static 2:00

If the last 2 holds are too long you can simply subtract 10seconds from each hold - ie start at 50seconds and finish at 1:50. Another way which may be better would be to make the first 2 holds of equal duration at 1minute, that way the table starts with a bit of a challenge but gives you the opportunity to settle into it more comfortably on the second 1minute hold. I know the final 2 holds still end up at 1:50 which is considerably higher than the figures in your table, but your PB is 2:30...! With twice as long to recover from each hold and prepare for the next I think you should manage 2minutes for both the 7th and 8th holds - or at least 1:50!

Please let us know what you decide to do and how you get on.

Many thanks for the feedback, I'll give that idea a go next week, I'd also never thought of two last holds of equal length. I also work backwards from the 80% max when writing up the tables, but am never entirely certain as to the best increments to use.

I find it strange that on a CO2 table with the last 15 second ventilation that I'm able to hit as high as 1:40 afterwards, but used to get more contractions during O2 table practice than during the CO2...although following advice from superhornet has seen my times increase drastically this last week.

So, I'd just like to say an all round thank you to everyone that is answering any queries that I place, since I have no-one else to ask advice from. :thankyouAnd I also hope that the extra questions added to this thread have also been of benefit to the original poster of the question.

 

[5kgLifter]

I was browsing the internet and came across this site, which I thought might be useful for some members:

freediving : CO2/O2 tolerance tables

 

[trux]

Yes, in fact there are about a dozen of similar applications available. You can see most of them listed at tables @ APNEA.cz

Still, I believe that those in Apnea Training Manager are the most flexible and most complete. That program is not limited to plain O2 / CO2 tables, but offers more complete interactive training programs with diverse exercises, and not only for static apnea, but also for dynamic and depth training. And not only simple tables, but full training sessions consisting of several exercises, and there is even place for entire training multi-session programs (courses or season training plans).

 

[5kgLifter]

Hi, I'm not an expert and possess no freediving qualifications but I do have a recent max of 5:01... Three months ago my max was about 3minutes so the tables and formula I use definitely work and should help you too. I found them here on DB so they're tried and tested, I just can't remember where they are! Anyway, here goes:

One thing which is immediately striking about your O2 table is the duration of each ventilation period... 1minute is not much time to recover from any moderately taxing breath-hold! The length of the ventilation periods should be just long enough to comfortably recover from the last hold and prepare for the next. I use 2minutes and view that as a reasonable figure for most people. So, the biggest change I would make in creating a table for you now would be to have 2minutes ventilation, not 1, between each hold.

The way I set out to produce O2 tables is to start from the end and work backwards. The formula I use has the last 2 reps being 80% of your personal best, and of equal length. With your best hold being 2:30, 80% of that would make the 7th and 8th holds 2minutes each. You said you don't want to start much lower than 1:00, so we'll use that as the starting point. I like to increase the holds by equal increments, and tying all those figures together produces a very neat O2 table, as follows:

1) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:00
2) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:10
3) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:20
4) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:30
5) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:40
6) Ventilate 2:00 Static 1:50
7) Ventilate 2:00 Static 2:00
8) Ventilate 2:00 Static 2:00

If the last 2 holds are too long you can simply subtract 10seconds from each hold - ie start at 50seconds and finish at 1:50. Another way which may be better would be to make the first 2 holds of equal duration at 1minute, that way the table starts with a bit of a challenge but gives you the opportunity to settle into it more comfortably on the second 1minute hold. I know the final 2 holds still end up at 1:50 which is considerably higher than the figures in your table, but your PB is 2:30...! With twice as long to recover from each hold and prepare for the next I think you should manage 2minutes for both the 7th and 8th holds - or at least 1:50!

Please let us know what you decide to do and how you get on.

The reason the longest time in the tables I posted was 1:36, is because that was worked out on my PB for that week which was only 2:00, I managed to add an additional :30 to that time in that week...I should have mentioned that in a clearer way, I had intended taking the new table up to 2:00 on the final hold based on the new PB, but was wondering if the way I was constructing the tables seemed reasonable.

Anyway, I modified the table values you suggested very slightly, up until the ventilation before the 1:30 hold I am using 1:00 ventilation as that seems easy, but once I hit 1:40 - 1:50 I have increased the ventilation time to 1:30 in preparation for those holds, and for the last two holds, I have increased the ventilation time to 2:00 and the table worked really well that way...no problems hitting the final 2 holds...many thanks.

Your post has helped me decide on lengthening ventilation times if I feel the body is not adequately ventilated during the table, something I may not have considered before, mainly due to inexperience.

 

[5kgLifter]

Yes, in fact there are about a dozen of similar applications available. You can see most of them listed at tables @ APNEA.cz

Still, I believe that those in Apnea Training Manager are the most flexible and most complete. That program is not limited to plain O2 / CO2 tables, but offers more complete interactive training programs with diverse exercises, and not only for static apnea, but also for dynamic and depth training. And not only simple tables, but full training sessions consisting of several exercises, and there is even place for entire training multi-session programs (courses or season training plans).

Yes, I noticed there are a few applications out there. The first one you mention doesn't seem to work, as in Internet Explorer for some reason cannot connect to it, it may just be a glitch today, it happens occasionally...so, I'll try and access it another day. The other one, I'll consider once college is over...but it's nice to have more options of links.

 

[trux]

The first one you mention doesn't seem to work, as in Internet Explorer for some reason cannot connect to it, it may just be a glitch today, it happens occasionally...

Which one do you mean? The first on the list, or are you speaking about the list itself? And what error exactly do you get?

 

[5kgLifter]

Which one do you mean? The first on the list, or are you speaking about the list itself? And what error exactly do you get?

tables_@_APNEA.cz , we're just having a problem with Internet Explorer not responding at the moment, but have been experiencing the same problem on a few links, only to find that a while later they work fine...don't worry about it, it's probably a glitch this end.

 

[colinox]

The reason the longest time in the tables I posted was 1:36, is because that was worked out on my PB for that week which was only 2:00, I managed to add an additional :30 to that time in that week...I should have mentioned that in a clearer way, I had intended taking the new table up to 2:00 on the final hold based on the new PB, but was wondering if the way I was constructing the tables seemed reasonable.

Anyway, I modified the table values you suggested very slightly, up until the ventilation before the 1:30 hold I am using 1:00 ventilation as that seems easy, but once I hit 1:40 - 1:50 I have increased the ventilation time to 1:30 in preparation for those holds, and for the last two holds, I have increased the ventilation time to 2:00 and the table worked really well that way...no problems hitting the final 2 holds...many thanks.

Your post has helped me decide on lengthening ventilation times if I feel the body is not adequately ventilated during the table, something I may not have considered before, mainly due to inexperience.

5kgLifter, it's good to know my post was helpful. After reading your post I have decided to experiment with shorter ventilation times in the first half of my own tables, so thanks for that.

Trux, are there any tables which can be easily printed out to take home? I'm thinking specifically of a friend who does not own a computer and has to use the computers at his local public library. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks

 

[trux]

Trux, are there any tables which can be easily printed out to take home? I'm thinking specifically of a friend who does not own a computer and has to use the computers at his local public library. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks

Well, you can print practically any tables, though at some the output may be more clear or better formatted than at others. The tables in Apnea Training Manager have an option for printing specially optimized for paper output (primarily designed to be used for pool trainings in our club), but that option is available in the full accounts only (unlike the free accounts, the full accounts cost 9.95€ / year). Anyway, I think that the printing option is not fully released yet in the public version - I'll have to look at it. However, since I never hear any feedback as for the function goes, I do not even know if there is any interest for such features.

 

[5kgLifter]

5kgLifter, it's good to know my post was helpful. After reading your post I have decided to experiment with shorter ventilation times in the first half of my own tables, so thanks for that.

Trux, are there any tables which can be easily printed out to take home? I'm thinking specifically of a friend who does not own a computer and has to use the computers at his local public library. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks

Let us know how it works out.

 

[colinox]

Well, you can print practically any tables, though at some the output may be more clear or better formatted than at others. The tables in Apnea Training Manager have an option for printing specially optimized for paper output (primarily designed to be used for pool trainings in our club), but that option is available in the full accounts only (unlike the free accounts, the full accounts cost 9.95€ / year). Anyway, I think that the printing option is not fully released yet in the public version - I'll have to look at it. However, since I never hear any feedback as for the function goes, I do not even know if there is any interest for such features.

I am happy to pay the 9.95 / year for a full account because APNEA.cz is a great resource, and not just for the Apnea Training Manager. Thanks for setting it up.

There is a print button on the page which lists the tables, but I could not find a print button on the individual tables...so I just tried to print a table (DeeperBlue CO2 table), using Ctrl+P (I use Mozilla Firefox browser on PC running Windows XP SP2). The page printed but it came out exactly as it appears on-screen, so only steps 1 to 11 (to the 6th apnea) appear, and part of the description is also missing.

One minor issue is when finishing a table it is not possible to click on Training Manager in the toolbar to do another table, so I click on the APNEA.cz title which brings me back to the home page and click on the Training Manager there. It is not a big problem but quite often I lose most of the "warm-up effect" while navigating out of the Training Manager and back into it.

Another issue is this; in tables such as the DeeperBlue table I just mentioned, it is impossible to scroll down to see the last breathe-up's and apnea's. This is much more important than the print function beacuse it is impossible to judge whether I need to make the table easier / harder depending on how fit I feel when starting a table.

Hope that helps. Thanks again for a very useful resource.

 

[trux]

Thank you for the comments, Colinox. I'll look at it. Frankly told, I get practically no feedback at all from users, and although I am aware of many bugs, and there are many planned or incomplete functions, the lack of interest on the side of users makes me wonder whether they use it at all, and whether it is worth of investing more time into the development.

Well, I reply here, but you are welcome to post any bug reports, wishes, or other comments on the APNEA.cz forum, not to spoil it here.

As for scrolling tables - that's normally possible at any of them. I just tested it and it works fine with Internet Explorer, but I see at Firefox, although the scrollbar is there, Firefox locks it for some reason I do not immediately see. I will have to look at it closer.

As for the print button - it is both at full sessions, as well as at individual tables. And I just verified that it works correctly with both IE and Firefox. It is the second button just next to the start button. EDIT: and yes, it is on the exercice list, not on the exercice screen, but it prints only the selected exercise, not the entire list of exercises you see. I can add printing on the exercise screen too, if you think it is needed.

 

[colinox]

It's a pity you get so little feedback after creating such an excellent site, Trux. I personally use APNEA.cz almost every day and it has helped me greatly. As you suggest I will give any feedback I can on your site. Sorry for going off-topic here on DB.