Ocean Kayak vs. Cobra Fish & Dive vrs. Whatever Else?

[Tahoe Diver]

Hi There,

I dive mostly in a huge, crystal clear lake (Lake Tahoe), and also in the cold (but awesome) waters of Nor Cal. I'm looking at getting a kayak and to date, I've only had the opportunity to try the Cobra Fish & Dive. I liked it, but I'm wondering if I should get something a little less bulky.

I would want to be able to carry two tanks, all requisite gear, but also be able to paddle the thing in swells, etc.

Does anyone have either of these models? Or, maybe someone knows of another model I should consider? My original thought had been to go all the way and get a Zodiac, but I think getting a good kayak would be a better start (snice I've never owned a boat).

Thanks for your help,

Tahoe Diver

 

[kumuhunta]

Ocean Kayak Scupper Pro tw is a great kayak. However I only use it for freedive spearfishing so im not sure how it will handle two tanks. ive seen some divers using the scrambler or scrambler xt for scuba. Its a great all around kayak. In fact I think its on of the most used kayaks. NOt sure though. You should do a search on kayak diving on the net. There are quite a few sites talking about different kayaks and advantages verses disadvantages. In all you should try them out before buying. all The reading in the world cant help you pic the best kayak for you.

 

[portinfer]

In my opinion if you are going to be taking alot of gear (I freedive too so I consider two tanks to be 'alot' !) then I would go for the zodiac.

Even a little one would be preferable to a kayak for these conditions I think.

For what you want to carry you would need a stable kayak. Stable kayaks are heavy to carry and heavy to paddle - I think that you would get tired paddling any distance with this set up.

The alternative is to get a sleeker kayak.
This would be lighter to carry and more efficient to paddle. However it would be more 'tippy' and harder to enter/exit with tanks.

Plenty of people scuba from kayaks I am sure but I would still recommend a zodiac for scuba.

You can get very good advice on www.paddling.net.

Perhaps the best thing to do would be buy a small/light plastic SOT for having fun with paddling around and enjoying the lake (I went past it once - it looked awesome in winter ) and also get a small zodiac for scuba. If you are nervous about boats then I am sure they run a beginners zodiac course near you ?

Just my opinion
(I use a Cobra Expedition [18' x 25" I think] for paddling about in the sea and wish I a faster/sleeker kayak already )

 

[FLRick]

Ive got the Scrambler XT & do two tank dives with it all the time. It handles the weight no problem & is very easy to paddle w/ two alum. 80's, one pony bottle, two spear guns, mask fins bc ect...... Set up rig (tank, bc & reg) & 2nd tank fit in tank well in back all other gear gets strapped in front.

 

[portinfer]

Fair enough. But if someone lent you a small zodiac would you use it and how would you like it ?
Do you paddle like this out of necessity ?
The Scambler is nice but loaded up I would imagine a bit of a pig to shift ?
Have you had any wet exits from it ? I guess you strap everything down.
How does it handle in swell / chop ?

Ed

 

[Tahoe Diver]

Thanks for the info!

Ideally I would try before I buy but the local shop doesn't have an extensive rental fleet. I think I'll probably just throw a dart and buy something. I think that so long as some key components are included with the kayak, everything will work out fine. After all, with so many divers using just a few different models, they must be functional, right?

I would buy a zodiac, but want I really want to do is simply extend my diving range. With a kayak I can do this (granted the range is not nearly what you have with a Zodiac) for about 15% of a Zodiac's cost new - not to mention not having to fill the gas tank, pay launch fees, etc. I may move into a Zodiac later, but a kayak seems to be the best opportunity to get out farther, cheaper and faster (than a surface swim at least).

 

[FLRick]

I had an avon inflatable 13 ft w/ 75HP mercury & got rid of it when I got my kayak. Most of my dives are reef dives about 1 mile or less off shore. When I had the avon it was alot of work for me p/u boat at storage lot, trailor to boat ramp, gas up, pay for parking, drive 20 min through no wake zone to inlet, hope it was calm enough to make it out, 25 min rough ride from inlet to dive site, ect....
then when I got back if it was calm enought to get out in the first place. I had to do everything in reverse including washing & flushing the boat.

Now w/ the yak its drive to beach, walk 15 ft to water, paddle aprox 1 mile in 8-12min & I am at the same spot that it would take at least two hours to get to in my avon.

Its not a pig at all to paddle loaded up.
Yes I do strap everything down but not because Its hard to do a deepwater entry exit. Its very simple. Just don & doff your gear in the water. Ive never come close to capsizing it if you think its a hard task, Id bet you never tried it.

 

[Tahoe Diver]

You're right, it's not that hard to get back onto the yak after you're done with your dive. I've climbed back aboard my buddy's Cobra Fish & Dive and it's not that big of a deal - large swells could be different though (I guess I'll find out).

You echoed my thoughts exactly with your Avon. I like to keep diving as simple as possible and yak diving seems to be the best alternative to long surface swims or waiting to use someone else's boat to get to those elusive dive sites.

Check our kayakdivng.com if you haven't already.

 

[Jon]

It's also a lot easier to launch a kayak, compared to a zodiac, when diving in those semi-private lakes where the boat ramp is actually a flight of stairs!

Jon

 

[Fish Tale]

I second the above opinions about the inflatable boat as a beach dive vessel. To my knowledge the best inflatable boats for diving are made of Hypalon. $$$ I wouldn't trust any other material.

I have a 10' Achilles inflatable boat and a 9.6 hp outboard for it. I can fit this boat in the back of my truck (inflated). I have a cart for it to make it easier to get the boat, fuel tank, and outboard to the water.

It makes a great dive platform once you get it to the water but getting it and your dive gear to the water kicks your butt.

Ocean Kayak has a new solo S.O.T. kayak called the "Side Kick" I've not tried one yet but it looks to be an excellent design for tank diving. Rated capacity is 300 to 350 lbs. It has lots of secondary displacement positioned well off center to help keep it stable. The bow is turned up to help it rise up over swells. Their web site has pictures and information.

I think Mrs Fish and I may replace our inflatable boat with a couple of Side Kicks so we have the strength left to fight off the killer manatees.

 

[portinfer]

Just my opinion FLRick - you are right - I have never tried it. I don't scuba but help out on a boat that people scuba dive from. Lifting the tanks and the gear seems heavy to me but I am aware that anyone is capable of anything they set their mind to.

Over here with my conditions I would consider it very hard to take two tanks on a kayak and dive safely.

But we don't have launch fees and I live by the sea (currently kicking up quite a swell/chop with a nice F6 wind !).

True kayaks are lighter and easier to handle but in my opinion they are better suited for just paddling or for freediving where you have minimal equipment.

Many people either scuba from kayaks or from Zodiacs. I just think that it would be hard to get a kayak that you would be happy paddling for any length of time loaded with tanks and scuba gear. But that is my opinion - I like efficient/fast kayaks and someting like the Fish n Dive is not exactly streamlined. The Scupper or Scrambler would be nice and propbably a good compromise if you intend to tank and kayak.

Perhaps it is a good method when you have to pay for launch fees and only go in summer / paddle short distances (a mile - 10 mins is short).

Unless you have everything very well strapped down or you paddle summer days when flies walk on the water then you will have a few falling out moments - a friend borrowed my kayak to follow her boyfriend who was spearfishing and managed to loose her bikini top - which just goes to show that loosing things in kayaks is an all too common occurence....

So Tahoe Diver to give you my opinion for the original question :

Have a read on paddling.net and ask people what they use for the same set up and conditions. I reckon that there are three basic levels of kayaks (all SOT) - the first is the 'fat mama' - very stable, can carry alot but has a short range unless you have gorilla arms and you might need a mate to help you carry it.
The second is the ones like the Scupper/Scrambler - they will be faster to paddle, slightly less stable but probably a good compromise and the last are the sleek surfski/ocean-designed kayaks. Probably too sleek for using two tanks with but again that is just my opinion.... Good luck with the decision - make sure you try a few - often the folk on paddling.net will let you try one out if you are in their area and I bet there are heaps around your way.

They also have second hand kayaks which if you are in the USA (which you are) are probably a better bet than buying new - you can try it out for a fraction of the new cost and see what suits your needs...

Guess you'll be asking about paddles next...

 

[Tahoe Diver]

Paddles!!! Just more stuff to buy!

I haven't given that much consideration to paddles, but I'll probably get something sturdy and powerfull, and on SALE. I'll take the advice to rent a few different models before buying. I'll just have to poke around until I find a shop that has the Scupper Pro and others for rent, but I'm sure I can find them.

I'll be sure to post a review of whatever I buy.

Thanks!

 

[portinfer]

Paddles
---------

How tall are you ? (Determines the paddle length to a degree)

Other considerations -

Paddle shaft material (ali / glass / carbon)
Paddle shaft design (straight / crank)
Paddle shaft - adjustable length and feather or non-adjustable
Paddle blade material (plastic / fibre (carbon/glass/mix etc))
Paddle blade design (traditional/wing but there are many variations)
Paddle blade size.......

Oh... and colour....

Are we having fun yet ?!

(Other things to consider : compass / flare / tow line / spare folding paddle / anchor / buyancy aid(often legally required to carry one in the kayak somewhere - normally on the deck...), kayak-wheels..... whistle, map, kitchen sink....)

 

[Tahoe Diver]

For me, the paddle's color is probably the most important consideration. I always try to ensure adequate color coordination with all my gear...

Thanks for all the information. We do have an Ocean Kayak dealer in town and they have all the misc. stuff and I have all the dive gear. The only thing they don't have is the full OK fleet to choose from.

- Tahoe Diver

 

[calicojack]

You should check out this site: http://www.kayakdiving.com/ They do a really good job of covering kayak diving. I have an Ocean Kayak "Scupper Pro" and dive N. Cal. It works fine for me. I owned an Ocean Kayak "Scrambler" prior to this and it was better in the surf, but it was slower and couldn't carry as much gear. My wife uses a Necky "Dolphin" and is happy with it. I don't like the size of the hatches on her boat.

YOU should ABSOLUTELY paddle various boats before deciding as much really is personal preference.

 

[Tahoe Diver]

Thanks calicojack,

Mark Theobald's site is awesome and it gave me lots of good information. I'm actually going to go ahead and buy his book. It's supposed to have lots more good stuff and it's only $15.

- Tahoe Diver

 

[calicojack]

We'll be loking for a review of the book!!!

 

[Tahoe Diver]

I'll provide one in a few weeks.

 

[kumuhunta]

Dont skimp on the paddle. I bought an alluminum paddle made by ocean kayak thinking I would save money and that it wouldnt make that much of a difference. Boy was I wrong. I later tried my friends paddle and bought one just like it. Not only was it easier to paddle it was also lighter and my shoulders werent getting as tired. I bought a werner fiberglass padddle. I mean you dont have to buy a carbon fiber but plan on spending a decent amount on your paddle. at least a $120. Buy a fiberglass one its a little cheaper than the carbon but will be almost as light. Even the store owner said that the carbon was more for show than anything. He recomended that eh fiberglass was just as strong and just as light.

 

[dend76]

Look at the Macski Kingfisher and the Kaskazi Dorado. Both are fiberglass sit on tops made in SOuth Africa. They are narrower than the plastic yaks made in the states, but have more secondary stability - which is what helps you in rough water. Both retail for about $1500 - 1700 including shipping.