Omer airbalete, safety is stuck

[jps]

Hi, i recently purchased this gun new, pumped it up to 24 bar and had my first dive with it today. But unfortunately the safety got stuck on the very first time loading it.
The loading went smooth and i could feel the spear connect at the bottom, but the safety pin wont budge (if i push any harder it will break off). I have gone thru the manual again thinking i've must have missed something like a factory setting or part that needs to be removed before use when the gun is brand new, but i cant find anything.

Any ideas what to do?

 

[Don Paul]

Mine was very stiff and hard to engage with gloves on. I would take out the
pin securing the handle to the barrel, remove the handle and retry it a few times. Let met know if is's still a issue. I have a 110 Airbalete as well.
Cheers, Don Paul

 

[foxfish]

Have you depressurised the gun to see if the safety works then?

 

[Don Paul]

Hi Fox, FWIW the handle can be removed with pressure in the barrel/chamber and the safety rotated on or off.
Cheers, Don

 

[jps]

Mine was very stiff and hard to engage with gloves on. I would take out the
pin securing the handle to the barrel, remove the handle and retry it a few times. Let met know if is's still a issue. I have a 110 Airbalete as well.
Cheers, Don Paul

Thanks for the reply. I got the handle off the barrel, but the safety is still stuck. I can feel it move about 2mm and then it bumps into something hard, just like it has some sort of lock in front of it.
I noticed this when i removed the handle the first time in order to pump up the pressure, but i believed then this was some sort of locking feature, meaning one have to insert shaft in order to "unlock" the safety.

 

[Don Paul]

Thanks for the reply. I got the handle off the barrel, but the safety is still stuck. I can feel it move about 2mm and then it bumps into something hard, just like it has some sort of lock in front of it.
I noticed this when i removed the handle the first time in order to pump up the pressure, but i believed then this was some sort of locking feature, meaning one have to insert shaft in order to "unlock" the safety.

Mine will not engage if the trigger is slightly depressed, perhaps the trigger
sensitivity screw at the back off the handle is not set properly ?

There is a detent restriction I can feel when the safety is at the middle
of it's range. ( back of lever pointing at handle pin).

How close is the lever to it's milled stop when rotated forward?

When the handle is off the gun make sure the push rod is back or the trigger/safety will not engage.

Cheers, Don

 

[jps]

The push rod is locked back, i remember this being loose when i removed the handle when the gun was unloaded, but now it is locked in back position (at least i cant move it back any further, and it wont shake loose to forward position). The trigger itself is also rigid, it wont budge at all, just frozen solid.

Next, the trigger sensitivity screw: 10 turns to the right (just as far as it goes in), no difference in safety handle or trigger (i tested on each turn). On the last 2 turns i notice a "sandy" sound, like the mech is full of grit. Reverse out to start position, then i go 6 turns to the left (the screw is nearly falling out now), no difference.

Now, due to the "sandy" sound when turning the sensitivity screw all the way in, and every lever/pin locked solid, im starting to wonder if the mech has jammed solid due to sand or other tiny particles. Fex the push pin might be jammed so it wont engage the safety mech properly. That might explain why i cant move the safety handle.

I really appreciate your help, thanks for the suggestions so far

 

[Don Paul]

Yes I believe something is jammed or locked by debris, the push rod should float with the trigger.

Before you went in the water did the safety function?

I would not remove the line latch pin as getting the spring back in is a bitch.

If the safety did not function before you went in the water you may want to show to your dive shop or Omer rep.
I'm am in no way a official omer consultant but am happy to tell you my first hand experiences from the gun build found here.http://forums.deeperblue.com/pneumatic-spearguns/85998-airbalete-110-a.html

Cheers, Don

 

[jps]

The safety was stuck before i went into the water, but the push rod was loose, so i figured the gun had to be loaded with a spear to "unlock" the safety (i have a rifle that works like that, it wont let you play with the safety until you cock it).

Thanks for your help so far,
i'll kick off a mail to infotech@omersub.it , hope for the best and steel my mind with "no true knowledge of value is gained by instant success", hehe.

 

[Don Paul]

The safety was stuck before i went into the water, but the push rod was loose, so i figured the gun had to be loaded with a spear to "unlock" the safety (i have a rifle that works like that, it wont let you play with the safety until you cock it).

Thanks for your help so far,
i'll kick off a mail to infotech@omersub.it , hope for the best and steel my mind with "no true knowledge of value is gained by instant success", hehe.

Love the Quote,:friday

I have the handle off the gun and in my hand.
The push rod is free of the trigger and falls freely back and forth as the handle is inclined.
If you slightly pull the trigger forward the safety lever should be free to travel in it's milled slot. There is a detent stop mid way that requires slight force to overcome, but the lever travels 100 % fore and aft in it's milled
slot.
All the best, Don Paul

 

[jps]

So, while waiting for an answer from omer tech i had another look at the gun handle, especially around the push rod, and now i can see sand/debris in there jammed around the rod. Can clearly hear it while trying to move the rod. There is not a lot of debris, i can barely spot a few particles on the plastic walls, but most of it is packed around the push rod.

This seemed funny because this area should be sealed when in use, so i went to check barrel and found particles on the inside of the vent (where you screw in the pump). Not a lot but just enough to cause problems when you need a tight fit.
It seems like i must have been really careless when i pumped this thing up, or it was in there from the start, i just never noticed it before now.

Anyhow, the solution seems to be to find a way to fish out the push rod and clean the mechanism.

 

[jps]

...and suddenly i found myself sitting next to a dismantled trigger mech (my dinner is still swimming out there somewhere).

Luckily it's just a few part, but i can see what Don Paul meant by

I would not remove the line latch pin as getting the spring back in is a bitch.

The whole tunnel where the push rod travels was lined with sand/grit, no wonder it locked up. But, with everything removed with the exception of the safety lever, the damned thing is still stuck (!).
So i dismantled that too (just 2 parts and they come out easy, see attached image).

(1) 2mm long bumb that goes into the small cutouts inside the safety groove in the handle.
(2) This "bumper" locks the trigger by simply stopping the trigger travel. I cannot see anything else interacting with the safety but this "bumper".

Now for the fun part, by just inserting the trigger lever without the large trigger "bumper" (2) i still cant rotate the lever from "safe" position without using excessive force.
If i insert the lever in "fire" position then i can move it just fine. As i rotate it towards "safe" position it gets harder and harder to move until it finally locks up in "safe".

It seems like there is something wrong with the way the safety fits into the groove when in "safe" position, i would expect a certain tightness so it wouldnt feel sloppy, but this thing just jam hard.

I will tinker a bit more with how this whole ting travels and interact before deciding on reducing the bump (1) height.

 

[jps]

(The images are really bad but it's the best i can do with my phone)

Found a way to jam the safety real easy every time.

If you look at the image named "fire position" the safety is in as far as it will go into the housing when the lever is at this position. Notice the circle showing the arm inside the housing still got some play, the lever will stop it from going in any further.

When turning the lever towards "fire position" i get some resistance due to the arm inside the housing have a slight oval shape. This is fine, because without this resistance the safety would get too loose and sloppy.
Notice the circle on the image, the arm inside the housing still got some play just like it did when at "fire", but now i can push it further in (the arrow shows the direction, and i hear a click as it snaps in place) and voila! the safety is jammed.
The small bump on the lever now goes all the way into the small cutout inside the groove and combined with the resistance from the slightly oval shaped arm it just gets to hard to rotate the lever to "fire" without breaking it. The small movement i could feel like i described in my second post is really just the small bump on the lever moving inside the small cutout when in "safe" position.

So, for solutions:

a) Shape a path/transition out of the cutout. Meh, dont like the idea of cutting into the housing.

b) Fill out the cutout so the lever will stop the arm inside the housing from popping deeper in. Hm, this will just add a tiny amount of material, like a drop of glue.

c) Wait for Omer to say "your new safety is in the mail". It is just a tiny plastic part after all and very easy to swap out.

...Think i'll go for (c) now and hope the jamming is not due to a misformed housing.

 

[Don Paul]

The # 1 shows the detent which travels a slightly ramped path toward the
Safe pocket milled in to the handle slot.

When the safety lever is pointing at the Handle attachment pin the detent sits @ the midway point and should have a little play/looseness.

As the safety is rotated to the fire position the detent ramp angle increases
until the detent falls into the Fire pocket.

I would go for your #C option to start with as I would think any parts shaping
could lead to a Warranty claim issue or create a unsafe condition.

A shaped plug press's into the port of the fill thread, so I don't know why sand would be there?

I would try filling a sink full of water and submerging and shaking the handle to help dislodge any sand. I have made 5 sand big surf entrees with no binding to date. I do hose rinse the gun after the dive.

I will say my safety was hard to move when my gun was New so I slid some 1000 grit wet paper under the detent to polish the detent bump slightly. It previously was almost imposable to rotate with gloves on. Now it is very smooth to operate.

Unlike many of the expert speros on other forums I use 1911 style safety's
on all my hand fabricated mechanisms and they have never caused me to lose a shot at a fish in 30 years. My guns have never misfired at anytime as well. Hopefully no one will try to turn this informative thread into a safety throw away debate.
Cheers, Don




I

 

[jps]

Found a better solution.

I cut out a small circle from a plastic band (paper thin stuff) and placed in inside the slot where the safety arm ends inside the housing (the red circles from my previous post). Now the arm cant go so far in that will jam the lever, and there is enough overall resistance that the safety is still, eh, safe

And oh, i absolutely agree with you about using safety.
I have been around firearms for long enough to have witnessed anything from involuntary misfire (sudden spasm/twitch) to hunting dogs pulling the trigger when a situation got overly exciting, and my respect for Mr Murphy is great. But that is, as you say, a debate for another thread

 

[Don Paul]

Here is my gun with the safety in the off ramp center detent recess, I can wiggle it in this position slightly. My gun was a early one and I found the line latch spring too tight to my liking. I made another spring with less tension.
Time for ....:friday

Cheers, Don Paul

 

[Don Paul]

Found a better solution.

I cut out a small circle from a plastic band (paper thin stuff) and placed in inside the slot where the safety arm ends inside the housing (the red circles from my previous post). Now the arm cant go so far in that will jam the lever, and there is enough overall resistance that the safety is still, eh, safe

And oh, i absolutely agree with you about using safety.
I have been around firearms for long enough to have witnessed anything from involuntary misfire (sudden spasm/twitch) to hunting dogs pulling the trigger when a situation got overly exciting, and my respect for Mr Murphy is great. But that is, as you say, a debate for another thread

Just saw your post before I put up the image. Glade you have it ready to fish.:friday.
If the fish you shoot are big and flat I would polish/debur the ''MicroSlidering holes, the two new ones I purchased were very sharp at the line holes. Good luck with your hunting.
Cheers, Don Paul

 

[jps]

Omer was fast as hell with their replies, new parts (the small safety pins which i believe cause the problem) are allready in the mail. This was a new thing for them too, they at first wanted to mail me a whole new handle
...which in hindsight i maybe should have accepted, would have made it possible to make a better comparison for really pinpointing the cause. Ah, the dangers of mixing politeness with nerd pride, hehe.

 

[Don Paul]

Outstanding mate, great to see Omer step up to the plate with a timely response. I have had great dealing's with our USA Omer Rep Mark Labbechetta as well. Glade in turned out well. Can't wait to see some fish images when you have time.
Cheers, Don Paul

 

[jimy286]

Unlike many of the expert speros on other forums I use 1911 style safety's
on all my hand fabricated mechanisms and they have never caused me to lose a shot at a fish in 30 years. My guns have never misfired at anytime as well. Hopefully no one will try to turn this informative thread into a safety throw away debate.
Cheers, Don


I

What is a 1911 style safety's???

Im gona get that gun so this is interesting to hear... First complaint Iv herd soo farr