omer caymen, rob allen?????

[giericd]

guys I need some help. The more I read the more confused I get. I need to get a new gun, I loved my JBL 38 special that was around 30'' long. it was super fast and I couldn't miss a 10'' snapper 10 feet away, but it needs to be replaced. I bought a seahornet wood 50'' gun and hate it. even with 2 new bands it is super SLOW the snapper just move out of the way when they hear the line release click. I cant kill anything with it! I will be hunting on patch reefs in the fl keys in around 30' of water. some free diving but mostly on a hookah rig. most fish will be mangrove snapper, hogfish, grunts, and with a little luck grouper. Most fish will be less than 5lbs but want a big enough gun to take a 20lb grouper if I get the chance. I just want a good quality gun that is super fast and has enough power to go through a fish (not punch it) at 10'. I dont mind metal guns and actually prefer longer guns (I'm 6'6'' tall). I'm on a tight budget but dont mind spending a little more than I would admit i spent to my wife! here are my options, for the price and hunting I would be doing which gun from the list would YOU get if it was your money???
HAMMERHEAD EVOLUTION 120CM $259
MAKO (RAIL GUN) PREDATOR 90CM AROUND $200
JBL LIGHTNING 24 127CM $159
CRESSI SUB PRO GERONIMO ELITE W/REEL $289
ROB ALLEN VECTA RAILGUN 120CM $280
OMER CAMEN ALUMINUM 110CM $229
OMER CAMEN HF2 110CM $353
thank you for any guidance you can provide!

 

[Mr. X]

The length is usually an important consideration - so surprised to see you considering 90cm alongside 120cm. Get the right size - how far away are the fish you want to spear? As those are almost all euro-guns or the similar SA-style railguns, they will probably take some getting used to after a mid-handled wooden speargun - so be prepared some time getting used to it before getting really upset!

They all sound like good options to me (except the JBL - which you'd know a lot more about than me). Depends what kind of person you are too. If you like Land Rovers (or pick-up trucks) I reckon a railgun (Hammerhead/Mako/RA) might suit you - simple, robust, evolved design, capable of handling even the largest fish. If on the other hand you wear a lot of black, really like the look of carbon fibre weave and always have the latest groupo on your mountain bike - then you might be better off with one of the European/Italian options I'm only partially joking.

Do you need a reel too? That can be very expensive for a railgun (although RA now offer a composite reel as well as s/steel - prob. not cheap though) but can be quite inexpensive on some euro-guns.

I think I would be tempted to get a Cayman HF2 (or carbon) -- state of the art design and construction, including the trigger mech.; reading between the lines, it sounds like 110cm is in the ball-park. I like Omer, they are real innovators. My main speargun currently is an Omer XXV. The wacky hydroofrmed HF2 barrel should make it unusually well balanced (most spearguns are tip-heavy which can get tiring/straining). Unfortunately that appears to be the most expensive option for you (it wouldn't be everywhere) - perhaps you could negotiate a deal/discount in the current economic climate?

I reckon I would be perfectly happy with a Rob Allen or Mako railgun (aluminium or carbon) 100-120cm (not that familiar with Hammerhead but some love their muzzles). They both seem a bit expensive to me currently - but perhaps that's to do with exchange rates & import taxes? - but they are some of your cheaper options, so perhaps not an issue. The Mako handle designs are v. similar to Rabitech's - I'd like to try their Apex handle, but the Stealth appears to be well liked too. I've speared quite a lot of fish with my 90cm Vecta-handle Rob Allen railgun - but for the clear waters of Florida I'm guessing you'd want at least 100cm and more like 110cm or 120cm (perhaps even 130cm in some places?). Possible advantages, the bulk rubbers are made in the USA and should be easy for you to source inexpensively (e.g. www.spearitco.com) - although they last years (certainly 3 years - maybe as much as 5 or 6 -- although you probably have a lot more UV to contend with). The soft dyneema wishbones are relatively finger-friendly too. The RA trigger mechs. flush clean with water but can easily be removed/replaced. A single 16mm rubber should be plenty powerful enough to start off with - even with the 90cm length (but you have to option to add another 16mm rubber or just replace with a single 20mm later, provide you get the normal "double-rubber" muzzle and doubly-notched spear.).

Beuchat have some interesting bigger spearguns now (Marlin?), as do C4 (expensive carbon fibre, with an optimized, cuttle-fish profile tapered barrel).

 

[azapa]

if you dive in rocky areas with shore entries a Carbon gun will get beat up too soon, for the price. I would take the cayman aluminum. Guns don't last for ever, and a reasonable price is important to me.

If you are going for smaller faster fish a 6.25 o 6.5mm shaft is fine. If you move up to bigger groupers etc, you can change to a 6.75 omer "american" shaft, they are tough as nails.

 

[giericd]

i will all ways be using my boat to get to the dive spots. they are usally a few miles off shore in around 30-45' of water with 30+ feet of visibality. 99.999% of the diving will be done on patch reefs with low relief >5'. there are hundreds of grunts, mangrove snapper, and assorted small fish in a small area, it's fun shooting. and there is a few good sized grouper here and there. last trip there was a 25+lb black grouper that we saw several times. he was all ways sitting just off the reef over flat bottom or 50 feet away from the reef where the sand meets the beginning endge of the turtle grass, we couldn't get with in 50' of him. a shallow reef, he probably gets shot at weekly and you don't get big by being stupid.... as i look at guns I cant see the difference between a lot of them the Mako and hammerhead look almost the same. most of the omer cayman modles look almost the same other than color, camo,,,, both of the guns i have now i got used, the short jbl, and the Seahornet and are the only guns i have shot other than 2 pole spears. my experience with these 2 guns is the crapy little jbl was super fast and could consistantly hit 10'' fish 8-10' away. the big 50'' wood seahornet was more comfortable to swim with but shot super slow and not accurate at all. I hear that wood guns are better but the experience i had with my wood gun is that the cheap much shorter metal JBL was a better gun in performance even though it was a lower quality gun compared to the Seahornet 50'' wood gun. could it be that my Seahornet was a good gun at one time but with age it has become unaccurate and slow? i cant see though how with new rubbers and the same shaft it would get slow. I am open minded to wood vs. metal/composit. and am not worried about a little noise from the metal gun while diving, the fish hear my air regulator comming a mile away! i just want a very fast gun and be able to go through a fish at about 10' and i would be a happy guy. will the JBL lightning 24 do that for me, or do i have to spend 3x as much to get an omer or riffe that will do what i'm asking of the gun?

 

[azapa]

you hunting sounds total fun, warm water too, I hate you!

if you are happy and accurate with a JBL you won't believe what a true eurogun shoots like = a laser

go for any European speargun you like, with integral track (rail as it is called sometimes) and put a reel on there for those tricky situations.

carbon is quieter (no woooooosh noize as spear flies down track) and stiffer so it will keep flatter on those longer models, therefore the spear better seated, but if you are on a budget ally is great.

come back and tell us what you think.

 

[giericd]

Hey guys thank you for the advise, I think I am going to go with the cayman u2 with the CDC muzzle. That design is so sweet! I found one new for$280, I am going to go for the 100cm gun it is a little shorter than I wanted but I think it might be a good size for what I am doing. It mentioned I had the choice of screw in band or open muzzle my choice. Does this mean with the open muzzle I can add a nother band to the gun? When I took both my guns they said that I must like the euro style since both my guns were set up that way. Not sure what constitutes a euro style I like the shaft to extend way past the tip of the gun, I feel that I was able to aim better that way since I am not lookiing down the whole shaft, I aim from lining up the tim and letting it fly. It seems to work for me I all ways shot expert in the military and this is like point shooting. Well if you guys don't point out a reason not to get the cayman H2 then that is what I will get. Every second I am awake I am dreaming of spearing in the keys, seriously you can't load your gun fast enough there are that many targets! Last trip I shot a keeper hogfish that was about 6 feet away as I pulled my spear and fish up there were about a dozen more hogs just sitting around. I put my spear in and charged it with one band and even with the hogfish still on the shaft I swam up to a nother hog put the tip with in a few inches of him and nailed him I did it one more time after that but couldn't do it a 4th time I couldnt load the shaft again ther was not enough space from the tip to the muzzle due to having 3 hogs on the shaft! Awesome hunting,ok that"s not hunting but it is easy picking lol
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[giericd]

Sorry that was the cayman H2 with the XXV muzzle
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[Mr. X]

Yes, you can use the XXV muzzle with double rubbers. In fact, one of the Omer pictures for the Omer XXV shows this (although nobody on the forum recommends it for the super-light Omer XXV with its skinny 6.3mm spear - even though the spear has 2 notches).

The double band configuration would be a little unusual, in that one set of bands would be screw-in and the other a circular band. I don't know about the Cayman but the XXV Gold (but not the regular XXV) actually comes with two sets of rubbers: 1 set of regular screw-in bands and one circle of rubber, albeit threaded. As it comes with only one articulated wishbone, the thinking is most likely that you will use one or the other (or one, then the other). However, the Cayman is a more substantial gun.

That said, you can get plenty of power from a single band, and they are quicker and simpler to reload. Nice to have the option though.

 

[Mr. X]

If really interested in the double bands though, double-bands for the original Omer HF was discussed at some length here:
http://forums.deeperblue.com/euro-spearguns/73928-omer-cayman-hf-95-double-18mm-bands.html
(It has cropped up on other threads too). The general conclusion seems to be that you can but probably better off not doing it. But sometimes we spearos have to find out for sure for ourselves!

I googled "Omer Cayman (2,double) band*" and it came up with several good links (some on DeeperBlue). This one might interest you:
sumora, official distributors of Rabitech and Rob Allen

 

[giericd]

Mr.X,
Thank you for all the information you have given me, I have 3 pages of notes with various makes of guns, lengths of guns, prices..... I keep seeing a lot of guns 100cm (39") and smaller I'm just worried that these short guns wont have the range I am looking for. Are they good for thaking 10 foot shots or are they getting to the limit of their range? I am probably going to go with a longer gun any way but was curious. I found that some times when i had my small 95cm JBL that when i was swimming or trying to ger a lobster out of his hole that the tip of the gun would be lower than my head, so if there was a misfire i could have the tip hit me under the chin. I am pretty aware of my surroundings and very safety minded but still ran in to a few ocassions where this happened and I didn't like it. with my 50" Seahornet it is long enough that no matter where i move my hands i still look like a swordfish with the gun still sticking feveral feet infront of my head which is more comforting. which length would you recomend? I'm leaning tward the OMER CAYMAN HF2 or CAYMAN ET

 

[marco15499]

Get an alluminum Rob Allen. You won't be disappointed. For South Florida I would choose a 110-120 Tuna with 2 x 16 mm bands and 7 mm shaft.

You will get a sturdy, robust speargun with the best shaft in the market. No modifications needed. It is ready to get in the water and you can kill whatever you see in your waters.

 

[giericd]

guys, thank you for the advise. I ended up getting the 100cm omer caymen hf 3d camu with a reel. it is a bigger gun than i thought it would be but most of the fish on the reef i fish are mangrove snapper which this gun will devistate with no problem and a few 20"-25" grouper mixed in which with a well placed shot this gun should be able to handle. this gun looks awesome! thanks again

 

[growingupninja]

If really interested in the double bands though, double-bands for the original Omer HF was discussed at some length here:
http://forums.deeperblue.com/euro-spearguns/73928-omer-cayman-hf-95-double-18mm-bands.html
(It has cropped up on other threads too). The general conclusion seems to be that you can but probably better off not doing it. But sometimes we spearos have to find out for sure for ourselves!

I googled "Omer Cayman (2,double) band*" and it came up with several good links (some on DeeperBlue). This one might interest you:
sumora, official distributors of Rabitech and Rob Allen

Re omer with two bands: An old thread but I have an Omer Excaliber 50cm; closed muzzle with one screw band and I put a longer spear, 2nd circular band, and reel on it. Very accurate and fun but of course limited range. My main gun is a big Riffe midhandle which a lot of california divers like since we have lousy viz but big fish, and frequent rocky entries but the little Omer is fun since you can snapshoot it. With two bands and a reel I have taken some good sized fish (10+ lbs) at 10-12' ranges when in tropical waters. With one band it doesn't penetrate well. In california I use it for halibut. I have taken 30+ lb halibut with it... Destroyed the cheap original spear that way... Fun gun, good value, but nothing about it feels very sturdy compared to a wood gun.