I am very new to spearfishing and was wondering what size gun I should get? I am planning to spearfish in a few lakes in south carolina kind of murky and at my uncles house in the gulf of mexico off flordia.
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omer excalibur 2000 or omer cayman aluminum?
- Thread starterswampfoxgolf
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I too often hunt in a murky water lake, where I mostly use a 75 centimeters: when I say "murky" I mean murky, so a 90cm would be too long cause I couldnt' see the spear tip of it. You must consider the length of your arm, of the barrell and of the spear: as a result, if visibility is about 3 meters, you CAN'T hunt with any gun longer than 75.
The Cayman is better then the Excalibur, but on such a short one the difference does not matter so much.
So assuming the Excalibur to be a little cheaper, go get it: it's perfect for lake hunting and will make you save those few bucks.
The Cayman is better then the Excalibur, but on such a short one the difference does not matter so much.
So assuming the Excalibur to be a little cheaper, go get it: it's perfect for lake hunting and will make you save those few bucks.
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you get the excalibur yet?
i bought the excalibur a year ago and its still going strong.....no problems...
love it for diving in the kelp etc...dont know if this sounds strange....but its really smooth!! hehe
anyway, enjoy!
i bought the excalibur a year ago and its still going strong.....no problems...
love it for diving in the kelp etc...dont know if this sounds strange....but its really smooth!! hehe
anyway, enjoy!
fyi I just received my new toy: cayman aluminim (not the HF model, the cheaper one with built in guide) great gun but the spear was not rigged (crimps and line provided, no bungies or swivels) and the spear is slightly bent 
I can't return it either as i'm on my way to Chile soon... oh well
I can't return it either as i'm on my way to Chile soon... oh well
Should have bought it from N.America where I check all the spearshafts for straitness! Kidding and in light of your situation probably not funny to you...
I just realized how old this thread is but just in case and FYI the Cayman is 7 years better than the Excal. The Excal is a great gun for the $ but there is no comparison on a technical level.
The gun I think would work really well for swampfoxgolf is the Cayman Cave.
Cayman handle/18mm power bands/4 prong/55cm - fresh water killer and most likely plenty enough for your uncle's house in the Florida Gulf.
Kidding and in light of your situation probably not funny to you...I just realized how old this thread is but just in case and FYI the Cayman is 7 years better than the Excal. The Excal is a great gun for the $ but there is no comparison on a technical level.
The gun I think would work really well for swampfoxgolf is the Cayman Cave.
Cayman handle/18mm power bands/4 prong/55cm - fresh water killer and most likely plenty enough for your uncle's house in the Florida Gulf.
Hey Mark, I guess you represent or sell Omer in the US then? your checking of spears must be for a reason, do you see many bent ones?? Kinda sucks that the factory sends them out like that without any QC. Scubastore was the seller, and they have been responding OK until now. Still no definitive answer though.
How do I rig the gun, there is a short piece of black braided line, mono and crimps (thats all!) i have swivels and an bungee so off I go. What was the braided line for is I guess my question?
How do I rig the gun, there is a short piece of black braided line, mono and crimps (thats all!) i have swivels and an bungee so off I go. What was the braided line for is I guess my question?
Yes, my family owns the affiliate for Omer in the USA.
Negative, I don't see many bent ones because ours don't come shipped one at a time across the Atlantic. There is GREAT Quality Control at Omer but they can't be responsible for a gun that flies solo from their factory to the store across the Atlantic. Shafts are easily bent in shipping when they're shipped alone. These are the benefits from buying from your local Chilean Omer distributor. Imagine shipping the gun back across the Atlantic, not a sensible option. Hopefully the savings was worth the risk.
Hi Mark, It would have been better to buy locally, but here, the stock is poor, the dealers arrogant SOB's, and the prices too high. The gun was very well packed, and the packaging perfect when it arrived. The steel is strong and tensile, and a "shipping knock" could not have permanently bent the shaft. I would have to assume that the steel stock used to make the shaft was bent but slipped through the QC at the factory. Omer is still a top brand though, and solving this problem I will continue to be an Omer fan.
I would love to have an online US dealer who can touch the range and price of the Euro dealers (subprof, cascoantiguo, scubastore etc) but there is not one I know of. Please let us know if this changes.
Safe dives..
I would love to have an online US dealer who can touch the range and price of the Euro dealers (subprof, cascoantiguo, scubastore etc) but there is not one I know of. Please let us know if this changes.
Safe dives..
I once recieved a speargun with a broken handle from scubastore, there was no problem getting it changed, I had to pay the return postage, but got the amount back on a giftcertificate, write them a mail if the gun is still unused and they will most likely help you.
hc
hc
Hi Mark,
Please elaborate on the advantages of the Cayman over the Excalibur. I read your old posts on why rail is not needed for the Excalibur, at about the time the stick-on rail was introduced. Now the Cayman has a built in rail. The the rail help at all at 90 cm length?
Thanks,
Hue
Please elaborate on the advantages of the Cayman over the Excalibur. I read your old posts on why rail is not needed for the Excalibur, at about the time the stick-on rail was introduced. Now the Cayman has a built in rail. The the rail help at all at 90 cm length?
Thanks,
Hue
Hi Hue,
Since this is your first post and you just subscribed let me be the first to say welcome to this community, its generally a nice place and you can get some great info here considering there are a lot of experienced divers.
The market demand commands the product line most of the time, not just what we think is better. In theory an integrated shaft guide serves the purpose of guiding the shaft straight during the shot. This is particularly important in a gun with offset bands, such as loop bands with a diagonal pull when the shaft would otherwise be pulled down onto the barrel of the gun.
In practicality this makes perfect sense but when Marco Bardi and other top team Omer collaborators did some tests and I did mine 3-4 years ago we noticed that on a 90-110cm guns there wasn't a noticeable increase in accuracy with the stick on rail so we opted not to install one stock on the guns. There were some scratches from the shaft and that was it. I am convinced a rail offers no increase in precision in a 90cm gun nor a 100 or 110. However, because it adds roughly 20% stiffness to the barrel and to satisfy the market demand Omer started producing extruded rail barrels last year.
The argument changes in guns over 110cm where barrel flex can be a contributing factor to loss in accuracy as the shaft error is amplified by the flex in the barrel. In other words if you overpowered your 120 aluminum round barrel gun, your barrel may flex/bow and so would the shaft. Not to mention the "average" European speargun handle trigger tension increases with the use of two bands further augmenting inprecision by the likelyhood of flinching during the shot. If you keep it simple and use the gun as it's designed with a single power band, regardless of whether it has a rail or not, it will always be more accurate.
For this reason, and to find a better replacement to carbon fiber, we went to the new technology of Hydroforming in our HF models....they're even stiffer than our signature model Cobra teak guns and are extremely light. The possibilities of speargun barrel design with hydroforming technology are infinite. We can make a gun and shape it like a surfboard or any way we want to increase tracking and maneuvering, add ballast where it's needed quite easily, and the structure is lighter and stiffer than any others including carbon fiber in the same dimension.
We're working on a 130cm model for next year which will be awesome. Sorry I got carried away v To answer your question between a Cayman 90 which has a rail and an Exc. 90 quite simply, if you're just going to use a single band you won't be able to tell the difference in power and accuracy between one or the other. If you decide to use two bands the Cayman is obviously better because it has the most sensitive trigger mechanism I know of unaltered by band load and the integratdd rail makes the barrel 20% stiffer.
Azapa, US discount online dealers like Buy scuba gear, scuba diving and snorkeling equipment, and everything underwater from LeisurePro.com just to site an example are as cheap for us here in the US as the guys in Europe when you factor in shipping. While places like Leisurepro are the best solution for someone who doesn't have a good local Omer dealer in the US, it may not be beneficial to you in Chile where I feel you're still better off befriending the local Omer dealer who also has to try to survive. Three months after your purchase you're still dealing with an issue of a bent shaft that could have been his problem not yours.
Ciao & clear waters, Mark
Since this is your first post and you just subscribed let me be the first to say welcome to this community, its generally a nice place and you can get some great info here considering there are a lot of experienced divers.
The market demand commands the product line most of the time, not just what we think is better. In theory an integrated shaft guide serves the purpose of guiding the shaft straight during the shot. This is particularly important in a gun with offset bands, such as loop bands with a diagonal pull when the shaft would otherwise be pulled down onto the barrel of the gun.
In practicality this makes perfect sense but when Marco Bardi and other top team Omer collaborators did some tests and I did mine 3-4 years ago we noticed that on a 90-110cm guns there wasn't a noticeable increase in accuracy with the stick on rail so we opted not to install one stock on the guns. There were some scratches from the shaft and that was it. I am convinced a rail offers no increase in precision in a 90cm gun nor a 100 or 110. However, because it adds roughly 20% stiffness to the barrel and to satisfy the market demand Omer started producing extruded rail barrels last year.
The argument changes in guns over 110cm where barrel flex can be a contributing factor to loss in accuracy as the shaft error is amplified by the flex in the barrel. In other words if you overpowered your 120 aluminum round barrel gun, your barrel may flex/bow and so would the shaft. Not to mention the "average" European speargun handle trigger tension increases with the use of two bands further augmenting inprecision by the likelyhood of flinching during the shot. If you keep it simple and use the gun as it's designed with a single power band, regardless of whether it has a rail or not, it will always be more accurate.
For this reason, and to find a better replacement to carbon fiber, we went to the new technology of Hydroforming in our HF models....they're even stiffer than our signature model Cobra teak guns and are extremely light. The possibilities of speargun barrel design with hydroforming technology are infinite. We can make a gun and shape it like a surfboard or any way we want to increase tracking and maneuvering, add ballast where it's needed quite easily, and the structure is lighter and stiffer than any others including carbon fiber in the same dimension.
We're working on a 130cm model for next year which will be awesome. Sorry I got carried away
v To answer your question between a Cayman 90 which has a rail and an Exc. 90 quite simply, if you're just going to use a single band you won't be able to tell the difference in power and accuracy between one or the other. If you decide to use two bands the Cayman is obviously better because it has the most sensitive trigger mechanism I know of unaltered by band load and the integratdd rail makes the barrel 20% stiffer.Azapa, US discount online dealers like Buy scuba gear, scuba diving and snorkeling equipment, and everything underwater from LeisurePro.com just to site an example are as cheap for us here in the US as the guys in Europe when you factor in shipping. While places like Leisurepro are the best solution for someone who doesn't have a good local Omer dealer in the US, it may not be beneficial to you in Chile where I feel you're still better off befriending the local Omer dealer who also has to try to survive. Three months after your purchase you're still dealing with an issue of a bent shaft that could have been his problem not yours.
Ciao & clear waters, Mark
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im thinking about getting an excul but i like to use dual rubbers and im afraid of the sharft being weak and bending so maybe i should go with a rob allen
what do you guys think?
thanx
what do you guys think?
thanx
I like the Rob Allens too. Although the trigger mech. on mine effectively wore out but happily they offer a long warranty & good service from the dive factory & sent me a new improved replacement, kudos. I've replaced the Dyneema wishbone a couple of times too, but that's easy to do and relatively inexpensive - finger friendly soft cord wishbones are a good idea I think.
I don't use mine much any more, mainly because it is rather long (90cm) for the UK viz I encounter most often. Also it is fairly large (OS barrel, fat grip) & heavy - which tends to attract the attention of bystanders ("going after sharks?") and cause hydrodynamic drag/inertia in the water.
Despite oiling the (galvanized?) spear, I have to check it periodically to clean off rust and re-oil -probably the galvanized surface has been compromised over the years. I do like their spears though: the dull coating is far less visible than shiny stainless steel, the grooves are specially smoothed out for cord wishbones, the tri-cut point is easy to sharpen at home and the big "industrial strength" flopper/barb inspires more confidence than, say, the very lightweight & somewhat flimsy (yet equally effective) barb on my little Omer XXV. However they require more maintenance than stainless steel (actually, I don't need to do anything to maintain my Omer spear - can't/don't even sharpen the conical point).
Yes, (most) Rob Allens are designed to handle double rubbers with ease (check the muzzle design and number of wishbone notches on the spear). Many euroguns can too but it is a far less common configuration for most. Check out the heavier models (e.g. Beuchat Marlin, Omer Cayman).
For very large fish, Rob Allen (and other SA-style railguns) are ideal (along with big custom woodies perhaps). For smaller fish (i.e. the vast majority), most spearguns will be able to handle the task. I guess the Rob Allens are designed handle anything
I don't use mine much any more, mainly because it is rather long (90cm) for the UK viz I encounter most often. Also it is fairly large (OS barrel, fat grip) & heavy - which tends to attract the attention of bystanders ("going after sharks?") and cause hydrodynamic drag/inertia in the water.
Despite oiling the (galvanized?) spear, I have to check it periodically to clean off rust and re-oil -probably the galvanized surface has been compromised over the years. I do like their spears though: the dull coating is far less visible than shiny stainless steel, the grooves are specially smoothed out for cord wishbones, the tri-cut point is easy to sharpen at home and the big "industrial strength" flopper/barb inspires more confidence than, say, the very lightweight & somewhat flimsy (yet equally effective) barb on my little Omer XXV. However they require more maintenance than stainless steel (actually, I don't need to do anything to maintain my Omer spear - can't/don't even sharpen the conical point).
Yes, (most) Rob Allens are designed to handle double rubbers with ease (check the muzzle design and number of wishbone notches on the spear). Many euroguns can too but it is a far less common configuration for most. Check out the heavier models (e.g. Beuchat Marlin, Omer Cayman).
For very large fish, Rob Allen (and other SA-style railguns) are ideal (along with big custom woodies perhaps). For smaller fish (i.e. the vast majority), most spearguns will be able to handle the task. I guess the Rob Allens are designed handle anything
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