Omer XXV Carbon vs Omer 90 Cayman Alum.

[FletchHR]

I have to get a gun to go fishing tomorrow... my dive buddy is showing up about a month earlier than I was expecting, which forces me into buying something fast :blackeye

Fortunately the local shop has these 2 on sale for about the same price (170-180 USD)

Can anyone help me decide?
90cm Omer XXV w/ Carbon Fiber barrel
or
90cm Omer Cayman railgun with metal barrel (presum. alum.)

I would buy the railgun easily, but:

1. once safety is engaged, I can not disengage it with my thumb... barehanded... at all. can that be fixed? I could never disengage it with my gloves on.
2. the rubbers seem different lengths by 1cm and this forces the wishbone to sit crooked... that seems bad too... can I make them fix that at the shop?

I was going to go for the Carbon, but:

1. Isn't the Railgun going to be more accurate?
2. I have shorter arms, and the Carbon seems about 5cm longer than the Cayman railgun, so the Cayman seems easier for me to load, especially underwater.

I read about 14 pages of http://forums.deeperblue.com/euro-spearguns/70591-omer-xxv-speargun-other-fast-tracking-guns-16.html on XXV and related, but am just confused... and going fishing tomorrow late afternoon.

Thanks in advance

 

[FletchHR]

still an hour to go... any help out there?

 

[Magpie]

Well for what limited help I can be....don't worry about the saftey, simply don't use it. You should never rely on a safety catch to be safe, the only way to make your gun safe is to not have the bands loaded.

The bands shouldn't be different lengths, the shop should have spare bands and should be happy to change them if it's a choice between that and no sale!

I'd be surprised if you noticed the length difference when loading in the water, you'll be able to load both just fine with a little bit of practise.

Don't worry about the rail, in a 90 length gun it's far from required and the XXV is known to be very accurate without one.

Truth is both are good guns and you won't go wrong whichever you get. The main difference I'd say is the tartishness of the Carbon XXV over the robustness of the Cayman.

For me I'd go for the XXV, but that's cos I'm a tart.

 

[FletchHR]

:lol: ok, thanks a lot, Magpie...

 

[FletchHR]

So... drumroll.... I got the XXV carbon fiber 90cm AND the Excal 2000 60cm ... will take them out to practice tomorrow.

 

[Mr. X]

Sound like good choices. But the Cayman is a great gun too. The XXV is available with (XXV Gold) & without (XXV) rail - I have two XXVs without rails and a Rob Allen rail gun with rail -- the rail would not be a critical factor for me. For longer guns, the bigger handle of the Cayman might be useful. Spaghetti said most of his pals say XXV is good upto & inc. 90 but others guns better at longer lengths.

My favourite speargun by far is my Omer XXV 75. So slim, so light, so agile, so much fun. For a 90+ I would be tempted by the Cayman, esp. the handle - & balance for HF2 - but the slim 25mm barrel of the XXV might still sway me.

 

[FletchHR]

Thanks Mr. X... wish I would have heard from you before, but I read many other threads before buying and knew your thoughts on the XXV.

I hold one gun, and hang one gun from my float, and try to pick the gun for the situation...

stupidly, I shot the 90 into a rock and bent my spear a bit at the tip the first day out... was able to use a crack in a rock as leverage on shore to bend it back, mostly... hope I learned my lesson.

Most frustrating with the 90 is that neither myself nor my fishing buddy can pull it back to the second notch :martial I have serious bruises on my chest to prove I've tried my best, but at the moment must fish with it on first notch... but it still kills fish. I'm hoping after more practice, I will get the strength to pull it back all the way. I'm 5'9" and 155lbs. (175cm and 70kilos)... I can bench-press my own weight, and consider myself somewhat strong for my size, but man...

is there a 2-(smaller)bands solution that would work better for me with this gun and still get the power/distance? I hear this thing should shoot 4m, but not on first notch, it won't.

 

[Old Man Dave]

Not sure about the cayman but I mostly use an XXV gold 90.

The standard bands are 18mm diameter and the second notch is very far back on the spear. I've been loading spearguns for over 40 years but I struggle to get the band on the back notch when new. I can do it but until you get the knack and/or the band loosens up a bit with a few loadings and age then just use the front notch.

The notches are close together on the XXV spear and there isn't a huge improvement in range/power. The spear may travel 4 metres but not straight and not with enough power to skewer a decent fish.I would suggest 2.5 metres from speartip to fish to be maximum range for any single band 90 cm gun.

I love the XXV Gold 90. For what I do it's the best but no gun is perfect just depends what you want.

Dave.

 

[FletchHR]

Thanks OMD, makes me feel better to know there are other experienced folks that have a challenge loading this beast when it's new.

My friend has a 75cm (brand?), and he says my 60 shoots better than his 75... so he realized he needs new rubbers on his gun for sure

 

[Mr. X]

I find loading the XXV 90 fine -- the last notch is not as far back as the RA, which has no loading butt to spread the force and add distance, and the Omer bands are softer/easier to load that the RA's 20mm bulk rubber. I doubt if strength is the problem though (although pulling exercises are more relevant than pushing exercises like the bench-press - try upright rowing with dumb-bells perhaps). The trick in both case, I think, is to remove the pain & bruising (once bruised things just get worse and worse) - so I wear a second, thick, dense loading pad on my chest, under my wetsuit, which has a rather thin, soft loading pad (Elios - my only complaint). RA sell a strap-on loading pad for a reasonable price but I made mine from a (good quality) old flip-flop/thong sole.

I find sharp metal wishbones scary but I still use one on my XXV 90, it tends to focus the mind when loading & unloading. I switched the XXV 75 to dyneema, after smoothing out the notches - much happier, not sure yet if it has effected accuracy.

Pity about the rock - I guess that's the downside of a super-light gun: the thin 6.3mm spear. I haven't bent mine but I find it sometimes wedges between rocks (once with a fish on the line!), the countersunk barb probably doesn't help it that regard.

 

[loneranger]

im fairly new to spearfishing but i have the omer t20 ocean mimetic 110. its carbon and VERY strong. as far as loading i dont know why you would have trouble loading a 90? i upgraded me 110 to a 7.5mm shaft and put 2 new 19mm bands on it. i hip load to the first notch, then chest load it to the next with no problem. BTW, i weight 160 pounds. if your trying to load it only using your chest, you may be loading pulling it to slow and wearing your arms out. load it fast, takes less energy, but by all means, MAKE SURE IT IS NOTCHED BEFORE LETTING GO! anyway, try it like i said, i know it sure makes it easier on my 110 omer. I would definately go carbon!

 

[FletchHR]

thanks for all your thoughts, guys!!!

I am pleased to report I went out on Sunday and had NO PROBLEM pulling it back to the second notch (most distant from the spear tip) :friday

My hunting buddies and I agreed it just needed a week or two of use to get loosened up a bit.

 

[Mr. X]

Just came across this old thread. Reminded me yet again of our dear, departed friend OMD, and his wise words and shared insights.

It surprised me to realise I've been using both my XXVs for more than 10 years now and still lovin' them . No longer available the nearest thing now seems to be the new, rather overpriced expensive Omer Invictus Carbone. Carbon ain't new or exotic anymore and it hasn't been for more than a decade. If the price/exchange rates improve, might be tempted get one - but what size, 110+?

I bought 2 new spearguns last year, not to replace the XXVs but to supplement at either end of the vision scale. In truth the 2 XXVs are the only 2 spearguns I will ever need in the UK. Minimalists might even just opt for the 80cm model and be considered very well equipped for 80-90% of the conditions I encounter. But having the choice of 75 (/70) and 90(90-100) seems to work well and provides a useful backup/spare.

My new spearguns are by Apnea Turkey (modern specifications, great value). Regrettably no carbon barrels - they make them but not yet available in UK. The small one is an ST60 with 2x14mm bands - the XXV75 covers most of the same ground and more.

The large Apnea Amarok 95 roller goes beyond my Omer XXV, in theory at least. It is much larger and heavier than my Omer XXV 90, so the 90 remains my first choice, by far, in better visibility, so far. Just waiting for a really gin clear day to justify hauling the 95 roller along with me, to put it through its paces.

Roller spearguns really need a slim, stiff, carbon barrel to help offset the extra bulk and mass of the roller muzzle and rubber anchor(s) IMHO. I wonder if the rollers themselves are even necessary when running rubbers under the barrel.