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open muzzle vs. closed muzzle

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
soljah said:
okay, so first of all. what is the difference between an open and closed muzzle?
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The muzzle is the tip of the gun, typically where the bands attach and where the spear exits on firing. a closed muzzle acts like a ring, where the shaft is threaded through before being loaded. this keeps the shaft from falling off the gun when the gun is turned sideways or upside down. and open muzzle has no "top" or Ring, and uses other methods to secure the shaft. most popular being the shooting line crossing over the shaft.

soljah said:
why is there such a price difference?
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if you ever find out, please tell me ok?

soljah said:
and what do they do to accuracy and power?
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has nothing to do with power, this is a function of the amount of force applied (bands). it does not make a gun more accurate per say, but many divers find an open muzzle easier to aim.

soljah said:
and what is bulk rubber stuff? is it just buying rubber in bulk? like by the foot.
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Bulk rubber is band material that can be bought in bulk. by the foot, meter, etc. it has no wishbones or rigging attached.

soljah said:
and if so, how do you put it on your gun?
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you tie your own bands, or in some cases, special adapters are used (on euro guns with threaded muzzles)

soljah said:
sorry about all of the questions. i am kind of new to the speargun thing. thanks!:t
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Hi folks, I'm newly registered on this forum, but have been lurking for years. I'll try not to make a fool of myself, (too often...). My favorite gun is a little 75cm Sporasub Aspic. It's gone from the stock euro muzzle, to a Rob Allen muzzle, to a Hammerhead Reef open muzzle. As far as power, I've seen no difference between the three muzzles, assuming the same shaft and roughly the same bands. Accuracy has never really changed and has always been good. The only reason I've settled on the open muzzle is that I hunt around rocks and holes. I found with both closed muzzles that if I shoot through a fish and into a rock or the bottom so that the shaft stops before fully leaving the closed muzzle, my shooting line would often get tangled around the band and/or wishbone. For some reason, this never happens with the open muzzle. Other than this problem, (which doesn't seem to effect anyone but me...), I think all three muzzle options are very good. It just comes down to personal preference.
Ron.
 
Reactions: Mr. X
cadiver said:
Is there any drawbacks to having an enclosed track gun. Does it result in a louder gun (wishbones rubbing on the metal enclosure)
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The main drawback is you can't take shots closer than the length of your spear inside the track.If the spear hits a fish while some of the shaft is inside the track it will probaly ruin the track regardlees of what it's made of.I would say cost as the second drawback.It's more work to machine an enclosed track vs an open track.

If you guys want some testing done on your guns send them to me and I will return them to you when winter sets in here along with the test results.
 
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One of the largest advantages I found with open muzzles is the speed at which I can reload. I scanned throught the post but I didnt find mention of this. I changed out my closed muzzle on my RA and I found it to still be accurate and I recently changed out my closed muzzle on a sporasub, the sporasub was due more to the fact that the CHEAP plastic housings on the stock wishbones broke. I was weary of the sharpe edges of a future replacement.
 
Reactions: Mr. X
What is it bthat you love about the OMER 3000. I find it very difficult to load because of the short butt.
 
gsmith

I've never used one (I am in speargun probation), but I like the open muzzle, circular band, the track under the whole barrel, the carbon fiber barrel. It just looks like a very nice all around gun, but for now I am sticking with my teak-sea pal-100.
 
Is there a webpage where we can see speargun tests videos? I've heard hawaiian skin do test all the times but I never seen a video....

m
 
This is a great thread to read so I thought I would give it a "bump"
 
Good idea Foxy.
And BTW, I have totally changed my mind since my own above quote dating two years ago. Now I prefer open muzzles for the clear line of sight, and for the fact that the shaft is kept in place firmly by the line, with no "dancing" in the muzzle bridge.
Now all my guns are open muzzle, except for the short ones for hole hunting (in holes you don't need a line of sight, but you need the muzzle bridge to keep the shaft if you hit the edges of the hole with the spear before shooting).
Time flies...opinions change.
 
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Reactions: foxfish

I have Wongs with open tracks and Wongs with enclosed tracks. I find enclosed track guns easier to load. Once you get the shaft started down the track, you can't miss the trigger mechanism. With my open track hybrids, the shaft can fall off the top and miss the mechanism if I'm being bounced around by waves.

The main function of an enclosed track is to prevent shaft whip. When powerful bands start to accelerate a thin shaft, the shaft can become bowed and leave the gun doing sort of a sine wave thing, which doesn't help accuracy.

My largest white sea bass have been taken with open track hybrids using 9/32" shafts. But on those guns, I used three 9/16 bands. On the same length guns that have enclosed tracks, I use three 5/8" bands because the track prevents shaft whip, even though I'm using the same thin shafts.

I don't understand the question about noise. The Wong tracks are wood except for a delrin reinforcement at the front end. Other manufacturers may use delrin or other plastic enclosed tracks, but no one that I know of uses metal.

Edit- maybe the Riffe Metal Tech guns have metal enclosing the tracks. I don't know, but there are other reason why I wouldn't consider one anyway.
 
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Agreed, good idea Foxfish, this is very topical.

Spaghetti, having just read this thread for the first time, I noticed some other contradictions & wondered what your (and others) thinking were on them now:

In Caves/Close confines:
An earlier poster mentioned trying 3 different muzzles on his 75cm Aspic speargun but he preferred the open muzzle for close shots because the spearline does not get tangled. While you still prefer a closed muzzle for similar conditions because it keeps the spear in place if you bash it on cave walls (if an open muzzle doesn't, isn't that rather dangerous?).

Quickest to Load
You said close muzzles are faster to load but another poster claimed open muzzles are easier to load. Sounds like we need a timed "load-off" -- or have you been converted on the time to load too?

I'm thinking a muzzle bungee would be essential/highly desirable for open muzzle rigging to ensure that everything is under light tension to hold it in place.
 
once the gun is loaded you are a happy man with the open muzzel... however happiness doesnt come easy, i hate loading the open thing..... ive lost many pieces in my loading time.
 
Beyond the shadow of a doubt, loading is faster and easier with closed muzzle.

Two years ago I had a unbelievable miss on a bass (close-range shot less than 1m ). Seconds after his initial flight the bass returned to get a closer look at the strange object that had almost hit it. I reloaded the gun on the same dive without bothering to reinstall the mono on the line release and - lucky me - 'made up' for the previous miss

Impossible to do with an open muzzle.

Cheers,
ulysses
 
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Reactions: Mr. X
good bump foxy!

After "converting" my closed muzzle Cayman to open by firing a sharktooth spear :crutch:crutchthough it... I am now a convert.

Every time i try to shoot a closed, something bothers me. I am convinced that unlike target shooting, spearing is 75% instinct, 25% aim - just like skeet shotguns with that raised rib, having the entire spear to line up on is great.

I have developed a "pin and lumpy thing" system for the muzzle the routes the shooting line nice and tight over the spear, no wobbles. I can load and dive again in 1:30 so it is not too long. (i think, how long does it take you lot?)

cheers
 
azapa said:
...After "converting" my closed muzzle Cayman to open by firing a sharktooth spear ...
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roflouch!

Good tale Ulysses. Miles has mentioned doing something similar in the past. For me, getting the spear in the muzzle, properly oriented, ensuring the spearline is not trapped or going under the rail is the tricky part (perhaps not such an issue if you don't have a rail), putting the line on the release is pretty quick (as long as it goes on first time). I guess that's why the Commanche has those little plastic clips all over the place, as well as the normal line release.

I would think the open muzzle could save some time as the spear can be placed directly into the trigger mech, w/o having to slide the butt of the spear right up to the muzzle end of the barrel first. I guess a lot depends on how quickly you can get the line over the 2 end guides. I wonder if a Riffe-like muzzle magnetic would help -- perhaps allow the spear to be held well enough to make a quick shot w/o securing the spear with the spear-line.

Anybody timed/videoed themselves loading?
 
Hamrrhed said:
One of the largest advantages I found with open muzzles is the speed at which I can reload. .
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yes in your pool ..may be ..why don`t you try in some passes like we got here with 18 knots current ...will see ..:naughty

T
o be more objective they Both get some advantages and both get their
problems..

depend where, conditions, and so and so...
the easyests could be enclosed tracks with an open track on front for easyest loading ..but this only exist on ~big~ guns as far as i know.
i worked on an euro full enclosed track carbon gun but never had time to finalize it .. for moment we only get half enclosed track carbon euros guns and they are enough...
about open muzzles for euro gun it is already 8 years that we modified our first one from an imersion closed muzzle..at this time they were no one that was offering this on the market ...


here is the proto ..imersion closed muzzle screw in rubber modify to open and one band..



hello pappy.. ha ha !

rgds all
 
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