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Packing problem

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
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M

mystiach

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2010
127
11
58
#1
Hi all,

Sorry if this is a repeat post but I can't find anyone who seems to have had this same problem...

I started packing about a month ago, just dry. I can sort of get it to work, but instead of the air going straight into my lungs, I push it up into my head and then back down from there. From what I can understand, I am incorporating some kind of mouthfill eq into the process :head

I've managed to get it to work alright until I get up to about 20 packs, where it's harder to get the air into the lungs, then if I don't block my nostrils (only have to very lightly) the air comes out my nose. Each pack, I can feel an eq happening. If I go very slowly I can sort of isolate the muscles and less air ends up in my sinuses but it is very much trial and error. I'm probably losing a bit of air out of my nose each time. So far I think my max packing (of useful packs) is about 25-26.

Just wondering if anyone has had the same problem, or if there are specific exercises I can do to help with keeping the right airways open, (yes, I do have eric's frenzel doc and the manual of freediving) - or if someone knows a few that might help more than the others.

I guess the plus side is I know it should be easy for me to do mouthfill when I eventually need it!

Cheers from down under :)
 
#2
I don't think this has much to do with mouthfill, mouthfill is pulling air from your lungs into your mouth, and using it to equalise, whereas packing is pulling air from outside into your mouth, and pushing it into your lungs. Pretty much opposite. The hard part about mouthfill (for me, anyhow) is not having a mouth full of air, it's getting the air there from your lungs in the first place!
 
#4
Hello,

First of all just relax :) It's only one month using this technique, so it is very very usual not to do everything well.

I think 20-26 packs is a big number for a starter. To start try less packs to "get in touch" with this, new for you, technique. You'll be able to control everything much better with 15 packs, for example. Then after you'll be extremely good with that, you can "add" a few more packs. Your organism needs time to become relaxed with the new situuations.

For the nose it is normal I think. Just you a freediving noseclip or if you are using a mask hold your nose like equalising when you pack.

Also some lung stetching will help you to control the extra packs of air you get, and to increase in a longtime period your lung capacity!
 
#5
Can't write much right now but seems to me that you are confusing a bit what needs to happen during packing vs when equalising etc there's an exercise where you suck air through a straw and trying to keep a small piece of tissue at the end through suction... At some point you will have to breath out through the nose while sucking through the mouth, which I think will help with soft palate control...

Out of curiosity, why are you trying to learn how to pack? If you are a beginner, I wouldn't go down that route. I think it's much more likely that packing will hinder your performance/progress at this stage than help. Almost certainly having so much air in will lead to loss of relaxation. My statics improved when I stopped staffing my lungs with as much air as possible, and I wasn't even packing!
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#6
By the way if you are going to focus on something to help you go deeper, I would focus more on practising unpacking than packing...
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#7
Nice points Simos and others.

To get the technique, it's like swallowing food down, instead you swallow a ball of air down to your lungs.
I can pack, but I find it difficult to explain it in words. I also agree with Simon's words, that packing does induce stress and therefore reduces relaxation.
What I do for a deep dive is to use a double inhale and than add in a relaxed way a few more packs. I stay away form max packing, though I may do this before the max dive to stretch the lungs and ribcage, diaphragm.

For my CNF (47m) I don't pak. And I think I'll shift my deepdiving to FRC diving, or sub full inhale diving in order to have a much more relaxed start and dive. You see in my experience it's nearly impossible to loose stress during the dive, so I better start with a low amount and keep it low.
 
#8
Thanks so much everyone! I think I wasn't clear when describing the eq thing - I know there's a big difference, I was being a bit facetious :) But I am definitely sending air into my eu tubes, and it seemed the best way to describe what is going on.

I'm learning to pack because I'm going to need it - and I know it's going to take me a while to get it to a stage to where I can actually put it to practical use it in the water. I am a beginner at packing, but in all other ways very comfortable, eg no issues with eq, no problems with relaxation or anything. I've done that straw exercise but not with the tissue on the end - good idea! So this question is really relating to packing, I know it's going to feel uncomfortable for a while, just have to adjust to it, and was wondering if anyone had had the same experience.

I only start feeling a small amount of tightness at 20, and then a moderate amount at 25 - haven't gone past that as I definitely don't want to injure myself. So I've done some statics/stretches at 20, think you may be right and just gradually increase from there. Any further advice about soft palate exercises I can do on full lung would be great, thanks!
 
#9
The equalising that's happening with each packing movement will be caused by having your soft palate 'open' (down). If you close it off (as you would when breathing through your mouth only) the air will go straight into your lungs without overpressure in your nasal cavity.
 
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#10
There's also an exercise with a balloon you can try - can't easily describe it but it involves inflating the balloon a little and then letting small amounts of air out in your mouth and trying to get it down to your lungs.
I stand to be corrected by the more experienced guys but I wouldn't worry too much if a little air goes up your e-tubes, can't put too much air up there! Lol the thing to look out for (esp with the balloon exercise) is to make sure the air ends up in your lungs as opposed to your stomach (which would be your natural response because of the swallowing action). And remember in case it goes in your stomach: what goes in must come out lol
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#12
Lightbulb moment - thanks Dave, hit the nail on the head, instantly 70% more successful :)

Simos - I know some people can't pack without holding the nose, but not necessarily for the same reasons I'm having problems. I can do it pinching my nose but it means I'm adding an extra step as well as putting pressure on my ears (more than what is comfortable), doesn't seem like the best idea and practicing the wrong thing only leads to bad habits. Fortunately no air going to stomach...

Thanks for all your advice!
 
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#13
I am no expert and stand to be corrected again but I don't thing it's a bad habit or adding and extra step - say you are diving with noseclip/goggles, you'd be packing with the noseclip on so i think you'd be better off learning to pack with your nose pinched. An extra step would be to pack without the nose clip and then put on the noseclip before diving... Also worth being aware that with heavy packing you might black out, so practise while sitting/lying on something soft :-)
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#14
Yes - sorry, I was being ambiguous again, I meant the extra step and bad habit being: air in/air up (into nasal area)/air down, as in the physical motion of packing, rather than air in/air down. And your 'non-expert' advice is still useful, thankyou! :)

I've heard some very entertaining stories about packing blackouts...
 
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#15
:-)

Out of interest and for discussion's sake, why do you think you're going to need packing? (no doubting that you will and at the end of the day you might even want to learn it without even having a need right now)
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#17
Eventually I'll use it for depth and also to improve my dynamic, so both of what you suggested. And flexibility. I don't do static anyway, I have no intention of doing something so horrible as a static with packing :blackeye

Basically, I'd like to be able to use a bit (how much depends on how I go with it) in the next 6 months or so, even a 3-5% improvement on my dynamic would make me very happy. I've already found it has been good for stretching before a dive so it's certainly useful in a number of ways.
 
#18
Makes sense - obviously lots top freedivers pack so if you master it I'm sure it can you give you that bit extra but my (very limited) personal experience taught me that it can also go the other way and prevent you from being relaxed, at least for pool disciplines.

For depth packing makes more sense to me as your lungs get quickly squeezed anyway so apart from the start of the dive it should make a huge difference in thorax pressure but still I think I remember reading somewhere that the risk of lung squeeze increases with packing (which is the opposite of what you'd perhaps expect if you didn't know the mechanisms involved)
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