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Packing

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Fert

New Member
Sep 11, 2003
21
1
0
Hi all,

I pack a little bit more than 100ml on each pack. My question is: Is the time I take to make my packs and the energy needed to do it use less oxygen than the "extra oxygen" I get with packing? I don't know if I'm clear enough...:confused:
 

fpernett

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2001
832
102
133
51
Yes you're clear.
The VO2 (Oxygen consumption) or the Oxygen that your muscles use for a given work, is far less than the "Extra" O2 that you get with proper packing.
I try to bring a big volume in every pack, to reduce the # of packs needed. Try to make it as less effortly as possible.
 

shaneshac

FIN TRASHER
Oct 8, 2002
1,874
178
153
44
Frank, seeing as you have a lot of experience in Apnea, please read my post "Was I close" and see if you know what the hell is going on on my ascents.

Thanks
 

Bill

Baron of Breathold
Oct 17, 2001
1,805
332
188
81
This one has bothered me for some time now. If you use figures of 1.8 liters Vr, 5.4 Vc, 1.0 pack, 6:30 static and 3:15 full negative static, packing will ad 10-15% to the O2 supply in your lungs and about 5-8% to your times minus the time it takes to pack (you're already holding your breath). It takes me 20 seconds to pack a litre so I lose over 5% of my time. The obvious conclusion is to pack only if you need the air for clearing.
That conclusion is wrong and I cannot figure out why. There is some psychological benefit but it's more than that.
A few notes here:
I can pack 100 ml for the first few but if I fill up, the average pack is about 50 ml.
Packing applies to statics too but, I'm unable to figure out why. The heart rate doesn't seem to be affected, only the comfort level and this is a 2-way thing.
Aloha
Bill
 

fpernett

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2001
832
102
133
51
Hola Bill
I did my calculations measuring directly my VO2, just to be sure that my heart rate equals my VO2. My heart rate just go up a 2%but my VC increase a 10%. It's not so linear when I translated to performances. I think it depends in the way you pack. I always think that packing wasn't good for static because the unpleasant sensation. My brother explained me the way he packs and now I use it for PB in static, the best way is to fill fully the mouth and relax your belly as much as you can (you will look like a pregnant woman), in that way you release chest pressure. It takes to me 10 secs. to pack a liter
Shaca I'll read your thread
 

Fert

New Member
Sep 11, 2003
21
1
0
Frank, I'm new with packing and I've tried it only in static. You talk about this unpleasant sensation and I agree with you. Is this sensation decrease when you go deeper and lungs are under pressure ?
 

donmoore

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
958
154
0
60
Fert,
Like what Frank said, packing doesn’t seem to help my statics much, if any, when I do it with my breathhold. But I do find it helps if I do it before my breathholds to expand the lungs. I do this before the breathup. I feel like I get a larger breath, plus there is less pressure discomfort.

Another important thing that packing does is what Bill talked about. It can really help give you the extra air pressure to equalize at depth. I have learned to control the muscles opening the eustachian tubes pretty well, so I can usually equalize at depth, but the problem is generating the air pressure to get a good solid, know their equalized, pop. I hate getting partial, uncertain pops, and freaking myself out wondering if my ears are completely equalized or not. Packing helps me avoid these distracting thoughts.

The pressure discomfort does quickly go away as you descend.

As is often said, don’t pack too much when you are learning. You can easily damage yourself. My limit is between 20 – 30 packs where my eustachian will open up. I will quickly hurt my eardrums, by over inflating the middle ear, if I try to hold the breath.

Hope this helps,
don
 

Bill

Baron of Breathold
Oct 17, 2001
1,805
332
188
81
One comment on the dive. The packed air quickly compresses but, you have to get off the surface. I packed too much and pulled something when I started the dive. Don't forget to exhale during the last few seconds of the ascent, too.
Thanks Frank. Think I have the idea and it seems to help. Nothing like getting help from the very best.
Aloha
Bill
 
Last edited:

Bill

Baron of Breathold
Oct 17, 2001
1,805
332
188
81
Frank
Thanks again. I just did my CO2 workout (dry) and after, gave packing a good try with your 'relax but faster' suggestion. It was a little more uncomfortable during the easy part and the heart rate was a little higher but, I ended with my best time ever. Can't wait to try in the pool.
Aloha
Bill
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
0
61
Nice one Bill.
I'm at a point where I'm so locked in to my routine that anything different seems to throw off the foundation of my breathups. I will admit though that for me anyways, packing and statics aren't often used in the same sentence. The only way I can get to feeling comfortable after packing is to start down. Quick. And that kinda throws the whole notion of a relaxed descent out the window.
 

Bill

Baron of Breathold
Oct 17, 2001
1,805
332
188
81
Me too, Sven. Got in trouble a few times by trying to rush things though. Quite a few times. Diving too.
Aloha
Bill
 

Fert

New Member
Sep 11, 2003
21
1
0
I've asked this question about packing to find something that could help my static time. As I read your opinions, I think this method isn't the "best way" to increase static time. What do you propose to help me ? Empty lungs static, CO2 table...?!?
 

fpernett

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2001
832
102
133
51
Hi again Fert,
I think there is no one way to improve statics, there is a lot of way, you should try a lot before find the best for you. The static training tables are a good way to start, but you should try different breathing patterns, warming ups pack or not, ways to pack. The statics are a personal discovery
 

Fert

New Member
Sep 11, 2003
21
1
0
Ok thanks Frank.

I'll try to find an adequate training plan for me. thanks.
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
0
61
I agree with Frank.
And while I can empathizewith your frustration at not getting the answer for you Fert, ya gotta admit there are worse things to have to practice. ;)
 

Fert

New Member
Sep 11, 2003
21
1
0
Training don't afraid me...I must say, I like it...It gives me a good reason to stay in shape and I see progress everyday. My PB is now 1minute longer than last month...I know, in 4 months my PB will not be 4 minutes longer but... :)
 

marko

New Member
Aug 17, 2002
23
1
0
37
hi
i have a litle problem: when i try to pack most of the air from my mouth escapes through my nose ....if i have my mask on its not a problem...is this normal or what?
 

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
4,731
753
218
I remember watching Perry Gladstone packing when he came to Vancouver to train....he pinched his nose during packing for the same reason I believe.
If you dont have a problem when you have a mask on, then you should be able to do it without one. Practice!
Cheers,
Erik Y.
 
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