Packing

[kevtron]

I'm working on getting Frenzel equalizing down, and in the pdf he talks about packing. First using cheeks, and later with your tongue. At this point I'm just on the cheek part, but am not sure if I'm actually packing any air in, or if I'm just puffing up my cheeks and bunch and looking silly.

Basically I just fill my lungs, and then try to pull a bit of air into my mouth, and using my cheeks push it down. How should it feel if I'm doing it properly? Any other tips so I can move on and get Frenzel down?

 

[Bill]

Instead of full lungs try FRC first. You're a lot less likely to hurt yourself. Stop as soon as you feel that the air increased and inhale. Again for safety and if you count the packs, you'll be able to judge how close to full you get. At first you'll be able to do a lot of packs and still inhale at the end so you won't pull something.

 

[kevtron]

FRC = empty lungs?

The tough part for me is I can't tell if I'm actually packing or not. I guess I'll just have to keep playing with it.

 

[beconfly]

I'm in the same boat. I've tried the FRC (Functional Residual Capacity) packing, on the theory that eventually I should have full lungs... I can do it for about a minute, and then run out of breath and have to inhale, i feel like i just wasted a lot of time and energy looking silly, and haven't made any progress of getting air into my lungs. So for the more experienced packers out there I guess a good question would be... From FRC, how long does it take you to fill up your lungs to a normal full-inhale level, and about how many packs does that take you?

 

[Bill]

O K hard for me to visualize since I learned to pack long ago. I'll get specific. If I exhale fully and start packing, it takes about 75 to get to full lungs so I get about 50cc per pack. I doubt that anyone can hurt themselves with 30-40 packs on empty lungs. At first use a nose clip or hold your nose, exhale, pack 20 and exhale. You can do this a long time without inhaling if you're packing. With your mouth closed and your nose blocked the air will have to go somewhere when you collapse your mouth and stomach or lungs are the only possibilities. Take it easy and don't do anything that even feels uncomfortable. No hurry, it will only increase your dives by 5%.

 

[Phil C]

Bill,

This thread raises a question in my mind. Is it likely that someone learning to pack could hurt themselves without feeling pressure building in their lungs?

I wonder if the issue is more with divers packing on top of a max inhale, feeling tight and packing more anyway.

Phil C

 

[Bill]

Phil

Right. Either that or ignored the warning. I can't give you numbers but I know that I'm not the only one that over did it and hurt himself. The younger divers (that I know of) may not have hurt themselves as much or recovered much quicker but two of us that are, shall we say, old enough to know better, couldn't take a deep breath for months.

Don't do anything that hurts is always good advice and in the case of packing you may have to wait a day to realize it. That's why I think it's better to learn to pack FRC or MT.

 

[Phil C]

An option to confirm that you are packing would be to pack through a straw with a full plastic bag sealed off over the end of it.

If you are packing you will deflate the plastic bag. The straw seems to help people learn packing as the motion is similar to taking big sucks of a thickshake through a straw.

Phil C

 

[kevtron]

Oh. Great tip and explanation. Thinking about it like a straw helps.
Cheers
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[KatFish]

Phil helped teach me to pack (I couldn't get it for about two years!). The straw never worked and I couldn't figure out how to isolate different body parts and make it work and the more you dwell on it the more complicated it seems to become. Anyway, what we ended up doing was in the pool one day I was standing up, put my lips on the surface of the water and sucked water into my mouth. Obviously you aren't sucking from your lungs because you'd choke. I repeated the action in the air and managed to suck air in. I never had issues pushing it down with my mouth shut, but understand that most either struggle with one or the other. I've been packing ever since.

 

[kevtron]

That's a cool experiment to teach yourself the motion. Good thinking on Phil's part, and thanks for the idea.

 

[rddk]

For learn packing empty your lungs and try to breathe only packing, since this manouvre was studyed for people that have ventilation problems, they need a machine to let them breathe normally because they can't use breathing muscles as we do normally. With packing they can ventilate good for 30/40 minutes, so if u empty ur lungs you can ventilate only with packs withouth problems. Obviusly do not arrive at a point of unforfotable feelings just try to feel full air and not overfulled. About learning packing there are 3000 different ways, one of it caould be going to a physioterapist specialized in glossopharingeal breathing manouvre, also there are some books that teach you this manouvre, one of them is written by federico mana, if am not wrong you can find a small guide with tips and all on his personal website www.federicomana.com. I hope it help

 

[Andrew the fish]

I don unestan. Since packing just happened to be my natural thing, I can't describe what I do, but half full or emty lungs don't make sense. Inhale full, you know, that abdominl first then shoulders - your lungs will be full, in fact with relaxed shoulders you will feel pressure increase and lightheadness. Then, if you start packing you will immediately feel your ribcage doing that crack-snapple-pop with first pack, it will start hurting and you will know you are doing it right. How can you learn something if you don't have a feedback. With empty lungs there is no feedback from each pack. Doing it right with full lungs - no one would tell you you are doing it wrong, and you won't think you are trying to look prettier or whatever.

 

[fflupo]

brrr, sounds horrible the packing, i am so happy that i don t have to pack

and thanx to sebastian murat who is always worth a search on db

i know why


wolf

 

[ktreloar]

haha me to....

just the thought of packing makes my chest hurt. LOL

Ktreloar

 

[rddk]

Learn to pack with empty lungs makes you sure that you are making it rite cuz with packing you should be able to ventilate withouth stopping and breathe normally, so the only way to undestand if u're packing air into lungs and not stomack is making it at empty lungs. If u pack uncorrectly example put air into stomack you'll feel unconfortyable too so you couldn't be able to undestand if u're packing in the correct way. Btw the best test is about spirometric test, i've done it with and withouth pack and withouth i touch 7.2l, with pack 9.5 l not maximum pack, so this is the best test for undestand if you pack correctly or not.

 

[kelp princess]

FRC = empty lungs?

The tough part for me is I can't tell if I'm actually packing or not. I guess I'll just have to keep playing with it.

hi - FRC does not equal empty lungs. the acronym spelled out: functional residual capacity, is actually the volume of air present in the lungs at the end of a passive expiration. At FRC, the elastic recoil forces of the lungs and chest wall are equal but opposite and there is no exertion by the diaphragm or other respiratory muscles. so mr. eNeRGy you do have air in your lungs just not full capacity - it is different for each person but a good rough est. is about 1/3 capacity - give or take.

and i do not recommend trying to pack w/out instruction from someone who is present that knows how to do it properly - and of course a BUDDY

cheers,

kp

 

[Hydro-Mike]

Thanks that really helped, for the first time I understand and can Pack.