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Partial Samba
- Thread starterx_yeti
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Personally I think there is no such thing as "partial samba".
If it's a samba, it's a samba. If it's just your eyelid twitching, it's a samba.
But a very bad samba I will call "partial blackout"
(the kind where the diver is completely out of control for a while, has memory loss, etc...)
If it's a samba, it's a samba. If it's just your eyelid twitching, it's a samba.
But a very bad samba I will call "partial blackout"
(the kind where the diver is completely out of control for a while, has memory loss, etc...)
This discussion of partial samba raises again the question: what is a samba or an LMC?
When I first heard the term "samba," I learned it described a diver who's loss of motor control caused a jerking motion that looked like the samba dance. Certainly, anyone shaking that visibly has lost motor control.
However, the term "loss of motor control" also suggests "controlled motor loss" wherein a diver might experience minor sensations from the autonomic nervous system which happen but do not cause the diver to lose control of what they are doing. Such uncontrolled reactions include contractions, flatulations, twitches, and even an isolated shake. A contraction of the diaphram is more of loss of motor control than an eyelid twitch.
Trying to get an official definition of what constitutes an LMC I found to be impossible. The old AIDA rules were very subjective and did not address what constitutes an LMC and what does not. The final answer to me was: take a judging course if you want to know if a twitch is an LMC or not. In north america, judging courses end up costing thousands of dollars by the time one factors in airfare, lodging, fees, equipment. That does not seem right for fair competition or for growth of the sport.
The best analysis that I have seen on the subject is by Sebastian Näslund in this thread: http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=63196&highlight=lmc+rules+sebastian
and on this website: http://www.fridykning.se/rules
The problem for the sport is explaining to a spectator who sees nothing from 10 feet away why a diver was DQ'd. Some of these things don't even show up in videos or above water. So, some compromise must happen.
The Swedes have tried to address the subjectivity of LMC this way:
Personally, I think AIDA has done its best to come up with objective rules this year.
So having said all that, I personally practice to avoid an LMCs altogether. I have found that discomfort is my friend when it comes to sambas. If it feels uncomfortable, stop and come up. Interestingly, all my personal bests have been totally clean. And without explanation, mild sambas and twitches would occur on attempts that were 80% to 90% of PB. Stuff happens.
Another 2¢.
Peace,
Glen
When I first heard the term "samba," I learned it described a diver who's loss of motor control caused a jerking motion that looked like the samba dance. Certainly, anyone shaking that visibly has lost motor control.
However, the term "loss of motor control" also suggests "controlled motor loss" wherein a diver might experience minor sensations from the autonomic nervous system which happen but do not cause the diver to lose control of what they are doing. Such uncontrolled reactions include contractions, flatulations, twitches, and even an isolated shake. A contraction of the diaphram is more of loss of motor control than an eyelid twitch.
Trying to get an official definition of what constitutes an LMC I found to be impossible. The old AIDA rules were very subjective and did not address what constitutes an LMC and what does not. The final answer to me was: take a judging course if you want to know if a twitch is an LMC or not. In north america, judging courses end up costing thousands of dollars by the time one factors in airfare, lodging, fees, equipment. That does not seem right for fair competition or for growth of the sport.
The best analysis that I have seen on the subject is by Sebastian Näslund in this thread: http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=63196&highlight=lmc+rules+sebastian
and on this website: http://www.fridykning.se/rules
The problem for the sport is explaining to a spectator who sees nothing from 10 feet away why a diver was DQ'd. Some of these things don't even show up in videos or above water. So, some compromise must happen.
The Swedes have tried to address the subjectivity of LMC this way:
Swedish LMC-rule:
In addition to international SP requirements Sweden will DQ athletes according to the following LMC-rule:
If there are any CLEAR and visible signs of LMC ABOVE water the athlete will be disqualified.
Signs of a clear LMC include:
- More than one "epeleptic" head jerk or sway.
- More than one "epeleptic" body jerk or sway.
- More than one "epeleptic" jerk in arm/shoulder or sway.
- Any two jerks in combination of the above will be judged as a clear LMC.
- Athletes mimicking any of the above mentioned movements will be disqualified.
Signs that will not be judged as LMC or penalized:
- No facial movements will be penalized.
- No hand/finger movements will be penalized.
In addition to international SP requirements Sweden will DQ athletes according to the following LMC-rule:
If there are any CLEAR and visible signs of LMC ABOVE water the athlete will be disqualified.
Signs of a clear LMC include:
- More than one "epeleptic" head jerk or sway.
- More than one "epeleptic" body jerk or sway.
- More than one "epeleptic" jerk in arm/shoulder or sway.
- Any two jerks in combination of the above will be judged as a clear LMC.
- Athletes mimicking any of the above mentioned movements will be disqualified.
Signs that will not be judged as LMC or penalized:
- No facial movements will be penalized.
- No hand/finger movements will be penalized.
Personally, I think AIDA has done its best to come up with objective rules this year.
So having said all that, I personally practice to avoid an LMCs altogether. I have found that discomfort is my friend when it comes to sambas. If it feels uncomfortable, stop and come up. Interestingly, all my personal bests have been totally clean. And without explanation, mild sambas and twitches would occur on attempts that were 80% to 90% of PB. Stuff happens.
Another 2¢.
Peace,
Glen
I think that the AIDA competition rules ought to be changed: when you get a partial samba (PLMC), you won't be disqualified entirely, but only the half of the body that was afflicted; you get only half the points; and at the following disciplines, you may only use the half of the body that made the statics without samba - it means you have to swim with just a single bi-fin and not using the LMC-side hand and leg. Additionally, the rules should be changed that instead of showing the red card after an LMC (full or partial), samba music will be played laud. The psychological impact of the red cards it too serious; it ought to be replaced in this way.
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Same with me. Almost all of my dry static PBs have been totally clean, except for one with a moderate samba. I have done the same time and longer since then with no problems. The longest statics I have done in the pool have all been totally clean. When I have had a blackout or samba in the pool it has been at less than 70% of my dry PB.ggarrett said:
Lucia