PBs - the curse of freediving?

[Simos]

The more freedivers I speak to the more I realise that the concept of PB is perhaps one of the main contributing factors for lots of BOs.

What is wrong with PBs?

1. It's a flawed concept - no two days or performances are the same so essentially it means nothing apart from the fact that on that particular dive you did X metres or mins

2. Unlike other sports like 100m sprint, using your PB as a target or measure of your potential has dangerous consequences. In 100m sprint, athletes try to break their PB all the time, but most of the time they simply fail and all that happens is that they run a slower time. In Freediving, aiming to beat your one-off PB leads to BO if not successful.

3. This is more controversial but perceiving the best dive as the longest or deepest engrains the 'wrong' attitude towards diving

I don't know what the answer is but some ideas would be to make the 'PB' somehow an average over a number of recent dives, or something along those lines.

Anyone else thinks PBs are a troublesome concept?

 

[Mullins]

It's not a flawed concept at all - a PB simply means your best performance ever. Not many people would assume that it's achievable every day.

Freediving is a sport, so perceiving the longest/deepest dives to be the best ones is kind of appropriate. Unless we start handing out gold medals for elegance, flamboyance or consistent mediocrity. In competitive freediving, we're trying to go deeper/longer than the people we're up against. In a sport where the ultimate performance limiter is loss of consciousness, obviously you're going to hit that wall every now and then.

Recreational freedivers might want to work on consistency for spearfishing, just having fun in the water etc, but PBs still provide a good measure of progress.

 

[chrismar]

Anyone else thinks PBs are a troublesome concept?

No.

It's just like any other sport. We have good days and bad ones, just like Dave says. Some people may have the wrong attitude to the sport (though wrong is a personal interpretation), but that is a different thing.

 

[Walrus]

Simos, have you ever competed at all ?

 

[Simos]

Hi guys - thanks for the input, appreciated. I am only a recreational freediver but I have taken part to a few competitions in the last couple of years, nothing serious.

I can see where the PB is useful and I agree with the comments. I also noticed a pattern in that almost every blackout/samba I saw or read about, seems to have come as a surprise which lead me to perhaps conclude that it's a surprise because it's always compared to the one off PB.

Like Dave said, the PB does have that significance but perhaps a 'season's best' or something like that would be a better measure when it comes to current form. Almost all freediving blogs I follow have the all time PBs displayed which leads me to believe that people do seem to always compare to their all time high.

I train once a week and even at my very modest dives I have noticed a big variation (as a %) from one training session to the next. Not surprisingly the biggest factor I noticed is psychological - a stressful week at work and things slide a lot.

I've caught myself in the last few months on occasions where I did dive alone (shallow dives on holiday without buddy or odds length or two at gym pool) - my excuse was always that I was diving well within my PB (my rule of thumb was around 30-40% of my PB). Of course I always try to listen to my body above all.

Things are different for you guys because you compete at such high level (WRs etc) that the PB is hugely relevant but I somewhat feel that for the rest of us perhaps the PB should not be important.

I will start thinking about my PB as my last dive - I think it's more relevant to anything I will ever need the PB for.

Interestingly (and I don't know if you'll agree based on your experiences) in other sports the PB is branded as 'career best' and always followed by other numbers like 'season's best' etc.

Which I guess indicates two things: the potential and high once reached and current form.

 

[Mullins]

Bit confused here. Are you going to estimate your current limit based on your most recent dive? What if that performance was intentionally sub-maximal, like virtually all training dives are? My 'recent maximum' is 100m because I've been doing interval sprints for the last month or so - but that tells me nothing about what my current potential would be. Hardly anybody would know what their current potential is without reference to previous maximal attempts, which tend to be few and far between.

 

[Simos]

Ps I'd like to retract the statement that it's a flawed concept - on reflection and thinking about the responses I was wrong. I guess I was just trying to say that consistency is far more important goal for the average freediver but sadly still most people seem to be driven by PBs.

Wal - maybe I think a bit differently because I am not a competitive person by nature. As Dave said I am in fact happy with consistent, mediocre dives because I just love being underwater. I get more annoyed if I dived and wasn't relaxed than if the numbers achieved.

 

[Walrus]

Hi Simos,
sorry I wasn't judging you, just trying to get some background. As you can tell by the responses you are right, I guess people who are in freediving as a sport have a different view then you

I do agree on some level even in competitive freediving if you get too focused on PB's it can be detrimental.

Cheers,
Wal

 

[freeln2]

Right there are a lot of strange things in "competitive freediving", e.g. 3 (three!) severe BOs in Dean's Blue Hole just to reach an "official" -100m CWT... The feature is that for really *free* (from AIDA, CMAS, etc, etc) diver(s) the women's WR is still -101m CWT...
Just a simple question - which is actual PB in such case: -100m or -101m??
P.S. Everything in my humble IMHO, of course...

 

[Mullins]

"PB" normally refers literally to your personal best, whether in training or competition. When people talk about official performances they normally say "competition PB" to acknowledge the difference.

 

[watts]

I like doing new PBS although I know its only part of why I dive. They make me feel like I am progressing and so does good technique better turns deeper exhales and a more focused dive etc... Its just a part of why we do it.

 

[Unclejake]

"PB" normally refers literally to your personal best, whether in training or competition. When people talk about official performances they normally say "competition PB" to acknowledge the difference.

Curious: Are all your PBs CPBs?

How about other divers? CPB > PB or nah.

The effects of competition stress are complex I figure

 

[cdavis]

Hold on Simos, not so fast.

The usefulness of the PB concept depends very much on the context. For competitive types, its useful, and probably necessary.

For average joe diver, I'm not so sure that's true. It is a concept that is subject to so much abuse that questioning it is more than reasonable. I see way too much focus on PBs by beginners. "How deep can I force myself to go," not "how deep am I comfortable and in complete control". Combine that attitude with newish divers, poor training, sloppy safety and you got a problem. Clearly it is an inescapable human nature problem, but PB,PB,PB focus doesn't help. Its worth talking about.

Personal, highly biased opinion, line diving contributes to the same problem. (That ought to get somebody's juices flowing)

Connor

I don't remember my pbs (except for frc depth), they don't relate to the kind of diving I do.

 

[watts]

I dont think line diving has to be push push . If one is very patient they can learn and progress within their means and very regular line diving will prevent the type of training that gets alot of people into trouble and that is only pool training leading to a comp then forced depth adaption in a short time. Squeeze squeeze. : (

 

[island_sands]

I dont believe PBs are the curse of freediving however I have seen many divers become obsessed with them.

I have found locally (UAE) that a lot of the guys are focused on PBs every time we go diving or training. They seem to be depth/time hungry/mad and every time they surface the first thing they look at is their watch.

My belief is that PBs are a good thing to aim for if

1. progress to a PB is measured and supervised
2. there is a purpose or definite goal
3. that a PB is not the focus of every diving or pool session and there is focus on technique and monitored progress

Personally I have noticed that here (and again, in the UAE and cant speak for any where else), that a lot of the guys have lost the whole of point freediving (i.e. enjoyment, relaxation, marine life, the feeling of the ocean, the community spirit, and the whole vibe) and the entire focus is on dive computer watching and depth comparisons... to which point I miss the point of freediving entirely.

Just a couple of weeks ago I was teaching some two stars and some mates came along for the ride/and their own training. One complained that the line was set at 18 metres (too shallow.) My answer was, "if you can do an empty lung dive to 18 metres I will be impressed". Why is depth so relevant??

Training, technique, practise, safety, self-awareness, buddy awareness.. I believe all these come before hammering yourself towards a PB and unfortunately our experiences in the UAE have been the reverse of this in many instances, three instances of this lack of awareness and safety this year have included 3 freediving fatalities. And just looking at some of the freedivers in our community and the direction they are heading.... it is not the end.

(and no people, before you ask, I never competed, except in our little local competition once a year. I am just a "baby instructor" who has never had a black out and plan not to if possible).

Does that make me irrelevant? perhaps I shouldn't be posting here... rofl

 

[azapa]

I think PB's are great. They give you a reference point of where you at and something to better. I attempt PB's in any discipline about once per yer, if I don't better it, I try again 12 months later.

An interesting point though not to miss is the quality of each PB. A shaky, earpushed PB certainly feels like crap. Doing the same depth or just 1m more decently, with a big smile on your face, feels golden

 

[whiteminiman]

Very interesting thread.

My interpretation of PB is slightly different.

Personal Best = the best dive for me, personally.

Which was in a swimming pool in Phuket - my first warm-up static for a max attempt static. It lasted about three minutes (I think), and was without questions the most chilled I have ever been in my life. I could have stayed there forever.

That was my PB. No depth. No time. Not even anything nice to look at. But it felt perfect, for me.

There is a similar post on a blog about running, I think the ethos carries across into freediving very well.

Barefoot Running University » Definition of a Perfect Runner

Run IN your environment. The perfect runner doesn’t run THROUGH his environment, but run’s IN it. They use the run as a way of experiencing the things he see’s, smells, feels in the most heightened way possible. The chemical changes that happens in the body during a run aren’t a temporary rush, but a conduit to get more in touch with the world we live in. Running isn’t a means to an end, it’s a way of disconnecting from the modern world and re-connecting to our primal self.

Don’t concentrate on the numbers. There is no mileage, or pace or finish time. You just pick a spot to run to and you run until your legs ache and your heart pounds. As you run, you pay attention to every detail; touch the tree’s, see the creatures, feel the mud under your feet. If you feel good, run further. If the run just isn’t coming together, quit and come back another day.

Stop. Stop occasionally. Don’t be so focused on the end, that you don’t take the time to reflect on what you see. Stop to talk to people. Stop to hear the birds. Stop to see the view. Stop to feel the wind on your face. Just occasionally stop.

Realize that running is a pleasure NOT a job. There are very few of us that actually run for a living. We all have other jobs; the way to bring the money in. We should NEVER lose fact that running is a past-time. It’s something we do for pleasure. We shouldn’t be so focused on our training plan, that a little set-back either through injury or life leads to feelings of disappointment. This is a hard thing to achieve; we all like to drive ourselves; see how far we can go. We should prioritize where running fits into our life. It shouldn’t come before family or friends. We should use running as a way of connecting with those important in our lives. What is better? A 5K run with our kids on a Sunday, or a 30K solo training run for a marathon? If running is a burden or an interference then what’s the point?

I am not sure if the perfect runner is an un-attainable ideal. It’s possibly just as hard to change your thinking as it is to run the marathon you had planned. However, I think it’s worth it. I struggle sometimes, but it’s nice to have these simple rules in my heart when I am becoming disillusioned with my runs. A reminder about what’s important; why running in my life is important. There is a certain joy that comes over me, when I run the perfect run -when I have managed to achieve the above. It’s even more joyous when I realize that the perfect run had NOTHING to do with what I was wearing or what technology I had strapped to me. That for me, being the perfect runner only cost me a little bit of personal reflection.

 

[Mullins]

Curious: Are all your PBs CPBs?

No, bit of a mix

 

[hteas]

Whiteminiman

Nice quotes!

As a non-competitive spearo and recreational freediver, I some times lose track of what I'm there for, so I need reminders along the way

 

[Mullins]

Isn't this really just a discussion about freediving competitively vs freediving for fun? Either is perfectly legit. It doesn't need to be fun & enjoyable to be rewarding, and vice versa. Whiteminiman, if somebody asked you what your STA PB was, you'd say "not sure, about 3 minutes" ?

The competitive aspect certainly isn't a curse - it's what has produced 'freediving' as we know it. The fact we have AIDA (ok, and CMAS and SSI and AA); the fact there are people on the planet who can swim down to 100m with relative ease; the amount we know about physiology, training and technique - these are directly attributable to competitiveness.