Pole Spear Tips

[Northspear]

Hey there,
I would like to buy a pole spear. The problem here in Northern Europe is, it's kinda hard to lay hands on one and even harder to find somebody to ask for advice. I plan on fishing flat fish, cod and sea trout. I guess up to max. 30 pounds. Most of the fish tend to swim quite fast, holing up is not such a big problem.
Right now I could get a Riffe or a Sea Stinger. While the one is quite expensive, the other I did not hear the best of. My personal best would be a Gat Ku measuring price/material, but I would need to import one which would be quite expensive, too.
The second thing concerning me are the tips. For fish up to 30 pounds, do I need a slip tip? When is this really necessary? Or is a single tip with flopped enough? I believe Sea Stinger exclusively has slip tips, and Riffe offer floppers, too.
The price difference is only about 50€ between the Riffe with flopper and the SeaStinger with a tip.
Do you have any suggestions, which one to take and why? This is also especially addressed to all Northern Europeans, what kind of Setup are you using, for what kind of fish, and why?

Help and shared experiences are greatly appreciated!

 

[cdavis]

I'm not a fan of slip tips, but I shoot small fish, few over 10 lbs. For those, a solid tip is much better. You want to have leverage on the fish. That is one of the big advantages of a pole gun. It allows you to get control of the fish and return to the surface quickly. In those circumstances, a slip tip is just a pain.

 

[poildeq]

My all time fav is made by linghunt

 

[myfish]

Linghunt too slow for many European fish. Riffe is OK, Gat-Ku excellent.

Slip tips are great for softer flesh fish but, rubbish for shooting in holes.
3 prong is good for some fish like mullet and flatfish but remember to make sure anything shot with a 3 prong is pinned to the bottom, or reef, or, you can stone it.

I don't have experience of the Sea Stinger but I do the Riffe (I have various versions and lengths) and the same is true of the Gat-Ku. In fact, the Gat-Ku is superb, fast, the slip tip and flopper are superb and it's FAST for a polespear. I don't remember the carriage being an issue and I'm in Jersey, GB. I have 7, 8 and 10 ft versions of that, with various tips and the inshore shrinker which makes for a fast hole or cave style polespear, or, as conditions dictate, dirty water stuff.

Both are great, simple, efficient, easy to assemble. If I had to choose just one, at one length for all my fishing...

Hmm, would have to be the Gat-Ku 8 with slip tip and flopper option.

Here is a link to a thread I keep running and will add too again in 2015.

https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/british-uk-polespear.98770/

 

[Northspear]

Hey myfish,
thanks alot for your explanations! I have to admit that I went with a 8ft Riffe with Slip-Tip. Unfortunately I did not had the chance yet to test it in the water, but I assum it is superb from what I heard.
Could you explain why Sliptips are rubbish for fish in holes? Do you mean the option where the tip is still connected to the spear? What are your experiences with break-away-rigs ?
Do you connect the spear via line to your buoy?

I was thinking due to riff diving here with holes but also semi-free water to rigg the spear and tip as break-away. My thoughts behind that are, that I am already used to it if I should go and hunt bigger fish, that I do not risk to damage the spear in holes or riff structures and that the fish are easier to control if shot quite deep and one has to come back to the surface.

I'd love to hear your experiences and thoughts about that!

Greetings from the north!

ps.: Read your thread and watched the clips, love what you do there. Keep it up!

 

[myfish]

Hey myfish,
thanks alot for your explanations! I have to admit that I went with a 8ft Riffe with Slip-Tip. Unfortunately I did not had the chance yet to test it in the water, but I assum it is superb from what I heard.

Yes they are. However, if you got the stock band, take it off and put it in a dark bag and freeze it. Get some Theraband Black tubing. It's fast, cheap and will allow you to hold the spear longer if you shoot and dive loaded. Holding the stock riffe band for 1:30 minutes is like TOUGH and likely kill your bottom time.

Could you explain why Sliptips are rubbish for fish in holes? Do you mean the option where the tip is still connected to the spear?

Good question. If you hit a fish in open water, chances are, if you get penetration, the tip will deploy. However, if it goes in and then hits a rock behind a fish, it likely won't. In extreme cases, and this HAS happened, my dive buddy shot a great white bream in a hole, hit the wall behind and, hammered the tip onto the shaft. That was IT for the whole dive and, he was lucky to be able to reach in, to grab that fish. Any further back in the hole and, it would be lost.

The other thing is using a flopper in a hole, or a 3 prong (depends really) you can, unlike a gun, shoot a fish on a low powered draw and NOT spook the others. With a slip tip, the fish can thrash, spooking all inside.

What are your experiences with break-away-rigs ?

I have a full breakaway system for pollack and mullet. Works great. Riffe do a tip especially for that.

Do you connect the spear via line to your buoy?

In a full breakaway, yes. Or, the kayak line.

I was thinking due to riff diving here with holes but also semi-free water to rig the spear and tip as break-away. My thoughts behind that are, that I am already used to it if I should go and hunt bigger fish, that I do not risk to damage the spear in holes or riff structures and that the fish are easier to control if shot quite deep and one has to come back to the surface.

I'd love to hear your experiences and thoughts about that!

Your spear will get beat up. You may, like I did, decide the riffe, as great as it is, has a crap grip. I removed the original and made a new one from self amalgamating tape. You may only need a very short spear for holes and I presume, you bought a 3 piece 8ft'er ?

I have loads of bits for mine and sometimes, 4ft is all that is needed.
This is where, it gets complicated. If like me, you dive from shore, boat and kayak, you need options. Long sections don't sit well on most floats. Dive hunters are OK but still, you need to secure any spare sections VERY well.

One dive you might need 8ft, an hour later you are in a complex reef full of holes and need 4 or 6ft.
Easy with the riffe to change spear length right. Not so though, the band length.

Again, if you are going to do mixed length dives with ONE multi piece polespear, my buddy came up with a variable band that is really easy to change from 4 to 8ft in a few turns of dyneema. I'll post the details to that and perhaps make a video on how it works as it really IS easy yet sounds complex. Yet it takes seconds, even with neoprene gloves on.

Greetings from the north!

ps.: Read your thread and watched the clips, love what you do there. Keep it up!

Great to see someone picking this polespearing up. We feel out of the crowd sometimes and no, it isn't easy but trust me, your going be rambo with a gun after a season polespearing. That's if you ever go back. I have 20 guns sitting here that are dying from dehydration !

Long live the polespear. Challenging, ethical, fun and, effective.

Don't be afraid to ask questions as we did struggle ourselves a bit due to most US style polespearing being shooting fish that by comparison, sit still. Our fishing simply isn't like that.

 

[Northspear]

Thanks alot for your detailed explanations myfish!
I do indeed have a 3 piece 8fter, but I will change some things the way you recommended it. I did notice fx. that holding the spear loaded is quite a pain....so I'll try the theraband.
For the hole thing, I guess using my short speargun is the better option, since I do only have the slip-tip and 3prongs are forbidden here. I do also understand the troubles that come with the different spear lenghts needed for different hunt locations. In reference to that I would love to hear about your adjustable band option!!

We plan on going hunting May 1st, I'm excited to try the spear and your tips out!

 

[myfish]

I will go to my friends house and get photo's of the adjustable band loop. Really easy but hard to describe in words.

 

[myfish]

As for the theraband tubing, black is ideal and fast for most fish. Silver is stronger and more punchy. Both work, is reliable and generally easy to obtain, and easy to tie bands using either cable ties for a test band, or for good but usually, I tie my best length with a constrictor knot and carry a spare always.

 

[Northspear]

I ordered some black tubing for now and still got whisbones and dyneema laying around to tie the whole thing together. Pictures of the adjustment system would be awesome!
I saw in one of your other threads your solution with the resting hook. Did you come up with a final solution on where to whip it? Did you ever try one of those mako resting hooks? I could imagine the metal scratches the spear, I 'd prefer a solution with dyneema loops and or knots. As soon as I get the new 2mm dyneema and my splicing needles back I'll try some things out!

 

[myfish]

On the riffe, I ended up removing the standard grip on the 3ft fore section. Then, I made 2 grips. One on the fore of a 2ft mid section and the other on a 3ft mid section. This gave me that bit more pole in front of the hand, which I like. The standard grip came off easily enough and would have been easy to replace. It's just some cord under shrink tube. However, after playing, I decided to remove it as it was serving no useful purpose.

I didn't get around to using the Mako system.
I did modify my loop and I stiffened it with superglue. This holds the loop open enough so it's really a piece of cake to hook up.
I tend to use that system when I dive 10 meters plus so I'm not loading the spear as fish are coming in. I just drop into cover and then unhook the rig when I see potential targets.

 

[Northspear]

Hey myfish!
Concerning the Theraband "Black", do you have any personal references on how long the tubing should be considering a 8ft spear?

Greetings!

 

[myfish]

To be honest, it varies and I have a few different lengths depending on whether I want more, or less spear in front of the hand.

What I do to determine a reasonable pull, is tie a dyneema loop through the tail of the pole, about the same length as the 'wishbone section' might be. Then, I thread the theraband through, grab both free ends and pull to the grip. Need less or more, simply adjust and trim to suit.

You'll see all sorts of silly (for us) polespear band weights. One NZ polepear runs 60lb draw weight ! but this is, for normal people on normal fish, too much.

I try to match around 30lb draw weight for bass, to the desired length of the band. This is why I make my grip a full 1 foot long so I can reach UP the pole in low vis, for long slinging shots or power shots and, detune for softer fish with more forward reach but less punch for fish like mullet.

What I will do for you when I go to the car, is measure my main theraband black 8ft band and post the results.

It's really not about immutable measurements though, more feel, punch, speed and the species AND, how much pole you need in front of the hand. More vis and spooky fish and an extra foot can mean fish, or no fish. Again, no point having 4ft in front in less than a meter of vis in bubbleweed either.

Hey myfish!
Concerning the Theraband "Black", do you have any personal references on how long the tubing should be considering a 8ft spear?

Greetings!

 

[Northspear]

Thanks alot!
I already thought that this depends strongly on personal preferences and the hunting conditions!
I´ll figure something out that suits me best!

 

[myfish]

Yea, pretty much the case. What works for you at the start of the season, might be too underpowered as you develop those muscles and you gain experience with the polespear.

I made the HUGE mistake of being too overpowered for a long time and, when shallow hunting on the drift which we can do here for many miles, I had periods where I needed to hold said band for minutes at a time. Of course, the moment you relaxed your grip...

You saw a fish and, this style of drift fishing here in Jersey can be see it/shoot THEN/NOW or it's gone !

The pole suits many styles but creeping around close cover with a loaded spear is the way I would start unless you are comfortable with dropping in and waiting.

The game changes even then as with a gun, you simply drop in, lie quiet and wait. You don't have to really think too much about gun angle. Direction yes, angle NO.

With a polespear, you do!

8ft polespear, 3ft/5ft with the / being your grip point means you have 5ft of pole behind you. If that pole is 9, 11, 13ft and at a similar ratio, HOW quite, will you lie on the bottom and lift the tip of the spear UP to shoot because the rear also has to go DOWN. So you have to start looking for small boulders to lie over, wrap around to hide, or you lie on the edge of ledges so the polespear rear has somewhere to go.

I'm not trying to sell polespearing to anyone here just that it is, gear wise, ultra simple on the face of it yet, it has hidden needs and makes you really respect you position, approach, timing, firing solutions and manoeuvrability.

Stick with it and give it TIME. The end result may be some time is needed before results start to show but seriously, it WILL make you a better diver overall and more important, a better hunter.

 

[Northspear]

So I've been out with the spear yesterday.
It's different....the handling underwater is much slower than with a harpun. Holding the spear loaded for a longer time is burning O2 quickly. I did also try the full break away but quickly lost motivation, since after each shot one had to rearrange the whole line and that took some time.
Also the visability was limited to max 2m. Diving down with a loaded spear and searching for fish on the ground and under rocks, I did not had the feeling the spear is made for that. The movement speed was too slow, holding it loaded burned alot time. And I have to admit that I was not too eager to shoot the spear in the direction of the ground or between some rocks...

How do you do it myfish? Do you load the spear and dive? I found it quite annoying to always load it and dive, especially since you have to push the spear forward first in order to reach the rubber. I wished I had something to attach the rubber to half-ways or even full loaded. Do you have hunting style you prefer with the spear? Aspetto e.g.?

One more thing, I did only try the Theraband-Black: the spear was fast, but I did had the feeling it did not had alot of punch. Holding it for a dive is however relatively comfortable. I cant understand how people can hold the original rubber for such a long time with ease. I'm not weak, but those people must be gorillas....
Any suggestions for more punch or how to hold it loaded with more ease?

 

[myfish]

There is a ton for you to learn and play with. The loading and holding issue is one to figure out for where 'you' dive and the species, depth of water. If I'm diving 6 meters and fish are quick to approach then I might load at the surface. If I'm dropping through 10 - 20 meters, I will almost certainly load if fish are coming in quickly, on the fall as I go negative. Of course, your experiences are why we started to experiment with loading tabs and pre loaded poles BUT, remember that soak times depress band performance.

 

[Northspear]

Hello !
I just wanted to give a quick update to spearfishing with the polespear, as well as the tips.
I had many good ideas ( I thought), and tried alot of different things;
Resting hook: barely used, it seems much more practicable to just drop and load on the way, or if you see fish.
Full Break away: This is really a pain...if you fire once and miss you will have to set up the whole thing again, tankling in your line etc. etc. I guess this is only practicable if you really plan on targeting big fish, or know on forhand that you will meet big fish.
Theraband Black: I feared it would not have enough power compared to the original band, but this fear is got disproven quickly.
I went back to the original slip-tip rig the spear came with, which works like a charm!

What I did do, was rigging the spear Manny Puig style with the extra loop, where the line is attached to, this works really like a blast.

Looking forward to go out again, aiming and fishing with the spear feels so natural, reloading is super fast and punch and distance are in a very good range ! I can only encurage to try polespears out!

 

[grantl]

What sort of fish are you hunting Northspear? Is it fresh water?

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk

 

[Northspear]

Hey!
I´m hunting mainly in the Baltic Sea, meaning lighter salt, sometimes fresher (the further you come North (Finland f.x.). Flatfish, cod and sea trout!