Pond noseclips

[pasanen]

A year ago i got fed up with using hands for equalization, so i decided to create noseclip that would hold nose for me, freeing my hands for something more useful. Problem was that it had to be so small that it would fit under the mask, since diving in Finland with fluidgoggles is bit hardcore. Now after a year of developement i'm very proud to present to you my creation.

This project has reached it's goal with success-% of 80-90. Meaning that it will hold enough for about 80-90% of divers. Noseclip's frame is made from copper, meaning that there is no spring like force, but it will hold it's form. Result is that user can define the force the noseclip uses, allowing equalization of ears and mask.

This noseclip is also superior in terms of comfortability compared to other small clips on the market. Comfyness is ensured by large rigid pads and neoprene cushions. Even hours of use won't be a problem at all.

These clips are available for buying at pond/shop, and more detailed information about manufacturing can be found at pond/diy.

There are three different sizes and three different colors at the moment, so there should be perfect for each one of us.

I have to warn you: once you start diving with hands-free, there is no going back. It's so much easier and relaxed when you don't have to use hands for equalization. For example, think about the possibilities in CNF!

So basically: no more hands for equalization, no more frustration with BTV and no more expensive fluidgoggles.

Warning: If you choose to use this noseclip for deep diving, you do so with your own risk. Elevated pressure level needed for equalizing mask through this clip can lead to inner ear injury!

 

[trux]

May be perhaps fine for those who can already equalize with BTV or with just some small extra pressure for opening their Eustachian tubes, but I am afraid that a lot of people simply need solid and tight pinching of the nose for equalizing the ears. And once your nose is tightly pinched for safe equalizing, you won't be able to equalize the mask. If you keep the noseclip loose for equalizing the mask, instead of equalizing the ears you'll finish with blowing air out through the mask all the time.

And those who can equalize with just a small pressure (a loose grip of the noseclip), can use a common swimming noseclip. These are easily and inexpensively available in sport stores. So yes, the clips look nice and are probably indeed comfortable, but they are not for everyone. Before getting such noseclip, you better verify if you can equalize the ears with just a loose nose grip, allowing to blow some air into the mask for equalziing it too.

 

[Jouskari]

Even though Im Finnish, I have to say that there actually some idea in these Pond noseclips.

The Speedo-clips etc. are to small to seal off the nose completely for eq. purposes (atleast with my big nose). I also have a really sticky left ear so I need a paradisia or trygon to be able to clear my ears against the noseclip. But even though I cannot use the Pond-clip for hands free eq. it helps managing the air supply to the mask and really does not require nearly as far much "pinching" of the mask as without a clip.

Compared to Speedo-clip the Pond one dont press on my nose so much and it´s comfortable to use for atleast 1 h.

 

[pasanen]

The 80-90% success rate i mentioned in first post comes from already bought clips. I have sold about 20 prerelease, and couple of people have reported that this clips doesn't work for them.

Sizing sure plays big role here. If the clip is wrong sized, it simply won't hold. And of course there are those who won't get the benefit even with right sized clip.

I personally have pretty loose eustachian tubes, but yet can't equalize with regular swimming clips, not even with BTV. This my creation, when right sized, is more than enough for equalizing for me, without BTV. It's true that those who don't have loose tubes at all, won't probably ever be able to use static clip for equalizing mask and ears, but I think this clip is best attempt so far.

This project is all about helping freediving community, and not so for making money. That's why i'm willing to send free test pieces to major freedivingclubs, so you guys can try them before buying. Contact me with e-mail or PM, if you wan't freebies for your club's use.

 

[trux]

So if your noseclip is not loose, how do you equalize the mask?

 

[pasanen]

It's loose in sense that it lets air escape to mask, when blowed hard. It's not loose in sense that it wouldn't hold for gentle equalization of ears. By blowing i mean doing Frenzel. Equalizing mask with Valsalva through this clip might lead to stressing thorax too much, so i don't recommend that.

You can test if the clip works by holding your nose with your fingers with minimum force that you can equalize ears. Now if you can blow through your nose, the clip will probably hold. Assuming that force you applied isn't too much for noseclip.

 

[trux]

It's loose in sense that it lets air escape to mask, when blowed hard.

That sounds like an excellent way to damage your inner ear, or the eardrum. Either you push just right for equalizing the ears - if the air is already leaking into the mask in such case, you are unnecessarily losing air. Or you have to push harder for equalizing the mask than for ears equalizing, and in that case you risk a serious ear injury.

Personally I would rather suggest using either just a mask without a noseclip, or a proper and tight freediving noseclip without a mask. The leaking compromise may sometimes work for some, but on my mind it is not the worth of the risk of damaging your ears.

On the other hand, the noseclips look nice, comfortable, and well suitable for a pool use.

 

[pasanen]

I gave thought to that scenario also, but i came to conclusion that maximum pressure clip can hold isn't enough to damage inner ear. I have used some version of this clip for a year now, and i haven't had any problems with ears whatsoever. But you are right, the risk is still there, even if it was a small risk.

 

[trux]

I gave thought to that scenario also, but i came to conclusion that maximum pressure clip can hold isn't enough to damage inner ear. I have used some version of this clip for a year now, and i haven't had any problems with ears whatsoever. But you are right, the risk is still there, even if it was a small risk.

I do not think it is a small risk. The risk is pretty serious. You may be lucky that you either do not really need to equalize the mask, because it is sufficiently compressible for the depth you dive, or lucky that the threashold of leaking/non-leaking of the noseclip is always just slightly above the level needed for opening the E-tubes. However that level is not constant at everyone all the time, and also not always during a single dive. So count yourself lucky you did not yet damage your ears, but I would strongly discourage you from advertising the noseclip for deep diving, since you risk pushing an unexperienced freediver to a serious injury, which could possibly even turn into a fatal accident.

 

[Kars]

Hi Ivo,

Indeed such a nose clip does need some adjustment and thinking. It needs a bit more delicacy in use. For instance, If you wait with equalising too long, then the pressure you need to overcome the opening of the e-tubes is bigger than this properly adjusted noseclip will provide. The airpressure will deflate into the mask, and if that's full deflate into the water. Basically is functions as an overpressure valve. Blocking gentle and medium pressures and thus guiding the air to the ears. Higher pressures go through into the mask. So if the clip is properly set up it's actually HELPFUL to prevent people over-pressurising their ears!
It invites people to equalise their ears early and frequently, providing just enough air blocking assistance.

I agree, it's setup and use needs some delicacy. Something that beginners, overwhelmed with all the other new sensations, may not have the sensitivity for yet. But I think it can be quickly learned, as it's just a matter of learning how equalise gently, frequently and early.

To Pasanen,

How can we measure our nose to see what size would fit best?
Maybe covering the rest of the copper helps in durability in salt water in combination with uncoated lead weights?


Nice job!
And I agree, the dives without hand on the nose feel at least 50% more immersive! Actually 2 out of the 3 best dives I enjoyed were partially or fully hands free. A comfortable soft pressure noseclip is to me ideal.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[apneaboy]

Do you have a picture of a diver wearing one with a mask on?

 

[pasanen]

Hi Ivo,

Indeed such a nose clip does need some adjustment and thinking. It needs a bit more delicacy in use. For instance, If you wait with equalising too long, then the pressure you need to overcome the opening of the e-tubes is bigger than this properly adjusted noseclip will provide. The airpressure will deflate into the mask, and if that's full deflate into the water. Basically is functions as a pressure valve. Blocking gentle and medium pressures and thus guiding the air to the ears. Higher pressures go through into the mask. So in a way it's actually HELPFUL to prevent people over-pressurising their ears!
It invites people to equalise their ears early and frequently, providing just enough air blocking assistance.

To Pasanen,

How can we measure our nose to see what size would fit best?

Maybe covering the rest of the copper helps in durability in salt water in combination with uncoated lead weights?

Nice job!

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

Thanks Kars, i was about to write exactly the same example about pressure valve, but you were faster.

I haven't figured any good measuring system for sizing, since noses are unique in form and size, ill try to figure something up. General sizing rule is this:
-Girls take S, or if large nose, take M.
-Guys take M, or if large nose, take L.
If you guys have good ideas for measuring for size, please tell me.

Never thought about chemical process is saltwater. Ill do some testing and post the results. Thanks for noticing.

 

[trux]

Indeed such a nose clip does need some adjustment and thinking. It needs a bit more delicacy in use. For instance, If you wait with equalising too long, then the pressure you need to overcome the opening of the e-tubes is bigger than this properly adjusted noseclip will provide. The airpressure will deflate into the mask, and if that's full deflate into the water. Basically is functions as a pressure valve. Blocking gentle and medium pressures and thus guiding the air to the ears. Higher pressures go through into the mask. So in a way it's actually HELPFUL to prevent people over-pressurising their ears!

I don't think so, Kars. Such noseclip just teaches you to always use bigger pressure than needed. That leads to permanently overstreched ears, and if you do not find the goldilock grip of the noseclip (or when the state of your E-tubes changes during the day, as it is often the case), you either waste the air (without properly equalizing the ears), or get a mask squeeze while risking an inner ear injury. It may lead to an instant injury, but as well, due to the frequent overpressure, it may lead to a slow long-term damage.

As I told, it may be usefull for someone who has easy going E-tubes, and a gentle help from the leaking noseclip is sufficient, or does not dive much deeper that the compressibility of what the mask allows. For most people, and especially for beginners, it may be a pretty dangerous gadget, when used without the right knowledge, experience, and care.

 

[Kars]

For most people, and especially for beginners, it may be a pretty dangerous gadget, when used without the right knowledge, experience, and care.

I agree, though I doubt that most people are so stupid that they do not [care to] sense when the mask is squeezing or they indeed are over pressuring their ears. In a way you can say this to any freediving tool, use your brain.
Thankfully using our brains, leaning, sensing, etc. is the way to become better in this sport and thinking is considered a necessity.

A few things Pasanen could add to the manual:

A recommendation for the user to strife to set the clip as loose as practical. Choosing technique over blunt force.
He can also explain about the dangers of putting it on too tight.
He can also explain about how to know it's set in the optimal pressure.
He can also explain that time of the day, form, illness, etc. greatly can influence the practicality of the use of this clip.
- though I doubt that other noseclips contain such warnings/explanations. And using any of them with mucus and slime of illness can also have LIFE THREATENING DANGEROUS CONSEQUENCES

So a simple guide to equalising using this adjustable pressure noseclip would be a nice service, providing even more value to a nice product!

Pasanen, maybe measuring the distance from the nosebase of one side over the cartilage to the other? (mine is 80mm)
BTW I do not understand the sizing chart, what numbers correspond to what?

 

[pasanen]

Do you have a picture of a diver wearing one with a mask on?

That's me with Sphera and a noseclip.

I agree, though I doubt that most people are so stupid that they do not [care to] sense when the mask is squeezing or they indeed are over pressuring their ears. In a way you can say this to any freediving tool, use your brain.
Thankfully using our brains, leaning, sensing, etc. is the way to become better in this sport and thinking is considered a necessity.

A few things Pasanen could add to the manual:

A recommendation for the user to strife to set the clip as loose as practical. Choosing technique over blunt force.
He can also explain about the dangers of putting it on too tight.
He can also explain about how to know it's set in the optimal pressure.
He can also explain that time of the day, form, illness, etc. greatly can influence the practicality of the use of this clip.
- though I doubt that other noseclips contain such warnings/explanations. And using any of them with mucus and slime of illness can also have LIFE THREATENING DANGEROUS CONSEQUENCES

So a simple guide to equalising using this adjustable pressure noseclip would be a nice service, providing even more value to a nice product!

Pasanen, maybe measuring the distance from the nosebase of one side over the cartilage to the other? (mine is 80mm)
BTW I do not understand the sizing chart, what numbers correspond to what?

I added a warning to first post and to website. I'll put something to manual also.

Your measuring system seems good. I'll ask friends to measure their distances, mine is ~85mm and i use M.

If you're refering to size chart on diy-section, then
D is diameter of the pad.
l is distance between the pads before the clip is bent.
L is distance of the whole wire.

 

[pingshui]

I really like the idea of those nose clips, especially because they fit underneath the mask. This makes it suitable for underwater rugby, because there I do not need to equalize my mask at all, but still need to equalize my ears once in a while. I would of course need a close fit of the clip in that case.

For freediving I also like the concept. My ears open easily and with proper adjustment it could really help me with handsfree. And honestly, everyone is responsible for his own ears and should know how far he can go. Beginners need a proper warning of course.

 

[Jouskari]

I did a dive to 60 m with a sphera / pond-nose clip combination. Helps with clearing the ears on the way down and actually also helps me be more accurate when clearing (not overpressurising etc). Only drawback is that you cant get air back from the mask on the way up. But that is a really small or even insignificant drawback.

Oh, another draw-back is that you need to store it somewhere safe between the dives. I´ve usually just shoved it down my wetsuit collar and it seems to work. Just need to remember it when takin the wetsuit off.

 

[StefanoMizzi]

I'd suggest to use this noseclip outside the mask. Of course you'd need some string, say around your neck, to avoid loosing it.

Why outside? Because you could remove it easily. This could be useful both during the way down, when you don't manage to equalize the mask or the ears and you can resort to your usual hands-not-free technique (so Trux should be happy -- well, maybe), and on the way up, when you can re-breathe the air from the mask.

Also, usually you need to equalize many times your ears in the first meters (let's say 10m?), and especially in DNF this is not convenient, since there you're more buoyant and need to push harder; conversely, you really need to equalize the mask only after a while (let's say at -10m?). Thus, you might even consider wearing the noseclip for the first 10m only, and then remove it (unless by blowing harder you manage to equalize the mask -- but this should be an exception and not the rule).

(I've tried this once with a Paradisia noseclip, but I have to improve the technique someway :duhsince some water entered inside the mask, and the Paradisia noseclip is a bit too big and does not fit easily with my mask)

My two cents,
S.

 

[pingshui]

For freediving it might really be good to wear it outside the mask, but for underwater rugby that would probably not be allowed

 

[azapa]

this may be an angle to consider: type of dive.

I never consciously equalize my mask, it just happens when I squeeze my nose, some must leak out. But, on Variable weight: I have no "body rhythm" that seems to help stuff open, and the dive is too fast and I must consciously do it (my mask starts touching my eyelids at about 30m other wise).

Good try and nice idea, I would like to try.