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Pool shooting anyone?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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spaghetti

Campari Survivor
May 31, 2005
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Does anyone play this sport outside of Italy?

Team:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jmOgngfoDQ]YouTube - Tiro sub staffetta Delphinius Augusta[/ame]


Individual:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwPJpAJAuDA&feature=related]YouTube - Stage di TiroSub a Messina - Giovanni, Only one shot, Tiro 2[/ame]
 
Yes I've heard about the French. I've heard there has been a challenge between Italy's and France's teams a while ago.
But other than Italy, France and Spain, I've never heard anyone talking about this game as an official sport with federation, rules, referees, sponsors as it's in Italy and France.
Uk? USA? Anywhere else?

Sports: BTW I'm watching football game Ireland vs Italy on TV at the moment: an Irish fellow named Whelan has scored to Italy....rofl
 
foxfish said:
Amazing, I have never seen anything like that before.
Click to expand...

And there's more to it: a third specialty after the individual accuracy game, and the team swim-and-shoot "biathlon".

It's called the "individual speedo biathlon" rofl (the interesting feature of this specialy, let alone the speedo, is that it's made mostly with pneumatic guns at low pressure, as they're faster to reload than the 100cm bandguns used in the other specialties. Watch this:


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyjFHrEbeys]YouTube - modena 2008 biathlon scapellato (86 secondi),tiro sub[/ame]
 
Reactions: Jon
In Kuwait we have something similar but at much longer distances. Competition starts with 4 meters then 5 meters and then finally 6 meters. The highest qualifiers then have an elimination at 6 meters. At 4 and 5 meters you have to freedive 10 meters, while at 6 meters the distance is 15 meters before shooting.
 

The three clips I posted above show the games played according to the official rules of our Cmas affiliated federation of underwater sports.
As a matter of fact, the rules have been changed and updated a few times in the last decade.

It's interesting about guns. Our Federal rules only allow the use of standard guns only, as they come from factory, with no modification or customization allowed (other than using shafts without floppers, to avoid them getting stuck in the targets...).
There used to be a "technical accuracy shooting" sport too, with customized guns. But now recently this extreme specialty sport has been abolished, because the customization of guns went far too far...
See below two pics of the gun used by italian champion Tino De Luca, back in 2001, when gun modifications were still allowed. It's an Omer Master modified with impressive wings, foldable butt and "optics" for aiming. Amazing!
 

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foxfish said:
Love those sniper guns - thats got me thinking......
Click to expand...

ya ya ya........I knew this could be inspiring for you Foxy (and I'm not talking about the speado guy....)

Detail of the track. The owner of the gun said he made the track with glass fiber plastering.
 

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It is funny but that is exactly how I was thinking a mod for a target gun would look like. The "optics" would be a foldable glass or plastic lens that would comensate for different elevations. I do think that in the photos that is taking it a bit too far as that does not look too much like a speargun anymore. I am interested in what kind of accuracy this guy was shooting with that gun. Also what distances the competition is, in the videos it seems they are extremely close to the target.

In the end the idea of target shooting should be to improve your normal spearfishing ability in a time (usually winter) when you cannot spearfish. I would agree that some limits should be imposed on general target shooting, but they should have an unlimited category and maybe move the targets much further ... maybe 7 meters or even 8 meters. You would be surprised how accurate an off the shelf good quality gun can be at 7 meters, although shaft drop becomes huge.
 

Seven meters? Must be cool!

Under European federations rules, they shoot targets 4 meters away, which is more likely to simulate our european real-life spearfishing conditions (fish are small and quick, sea clarity is generally crappy).

I also wonder wether placing the target 7 or 8 meters away would give too much importance to gun performance (in terms of range) rather than to human skills, maybe?
 
Actually I think human skill comes into play the most after 6 meters. Already at 6 meters shaft drop is almost 20cm on most guns. When you move to 7 meters that can reach almost 40cm. The most distance I have tried target shooting is at 7.5 meters, which is the maximum distance for my gun at 2 wraps. At that distance I load both my bands all the way back and use almost 35cm to 40cm elevation change. I can assure you that this is where human skill really shines as even a tiny flinch can mean you miss by a big margin. At 4 meters is way too close to be interesting, basically with a good setup and good shooter you would be shooting in the same hole everytime!

I still think we have the best system for target shooting as you need to shoot targets at different distances. Shooting from 4 then 5 then 6 meters would require the shooter to adjust his shooting elevation by as much as 20 cm. Being able to judge distance and how much elevation to adjust requires some human skill for sure.
 
speareasy said:
At 4 meters is way too close to be interesting, basically with a good setup and good shooter you would be shooting in the same hole everytime!
Click to expand...

Well, it doesn't happen.
I have looked into some score lists of competitions, and actually they do not shoot all the same, not at all.
There must be more to it.

Of course I don't mean to be any argumentative, mate: the beauty of the Deeperblue forums is meeting different people to gather different experiences from different parts of the world. So please keep 'em coming, and don't take it personally if sometimes we may disagree about something. It's part of the fun of it.

Out of curiosity, what gun do you shoot in pool target comps?
Our pool shooters over here all use 100cm euroguns (ranging from 90 to 110) with single band (or single set of twin bands) with 6'ish millimeters shafts and no flopper.
 
Actually I am very happy to meet other people that shoot in pools as I think that is a lot of fun. I am also interested in what system is used. I use a Riffe Euro 120X with only slight modification (added wing) to help keep the bands sitting the same way every time. I load it with 2 x 16mm bands cut at 27" and 28" respectively and the shaft is a flopperless 7.1 mm shaft with twin tabs. I have tried the euro guns like Cressi Sub and Beuchat and Mares with 100 to 115cm but was not happy with accuracy. Out of curiosity, what is the bullseye diameter in the 4 meter targets, and what is the typical winning score?

With a 100cm gun and such small diameter spears it will be a big problem to get decent power to reach 6 meters reliably I think. I have tried 6.75mm shafts and is quite good at 6 meters although I prefer 7.1mm. At 7.5mm accuracy suffers more with 6.75mm. I think with thin shafts when you try to get more power to get flatter trajectory you end up with shaft whip which actually hurts accuracy. I can see that on the target because the shaft is striking the target at not the same angle everytime with thin shafts. I am still not happy with my setup as I think there can be some improvements in accuracy, especially in the band setup. I have thought about using optical targets but I that would start pushing things in the wrong direction. I like the idea of using off the shelf guns only as it keeps the emphasis on shooting technique rather than equipment.
 
very interesting post guys this competition stuff looks fun. how are the targets made, what materials etc
thanks in advance lads
 
Target here are made in 60cm2 with bullseye 5cm2 and go up in 5cm increments. Bullseye center is 2.5cm2 and that is used to break ties in case of equal scores. Distance is 4 meter then 5 meter then 6 meters with free diving requirement at 5 meters then 10 meters then 15 meters as the distance increases.

Targets are tape on targets which are taped on a 7.5cm high density foam. Target holders are made of aluminium, but that doesn't seem best as it looks like aluminium corrodes with chlorine. Most likely powder coated aluminium or stainless steel is best.
 

Bullseye target's diameter is 1,2 centimeters here in Europe (Cmas rules), surrounded by larger concentric circles giving a lesser score, same as in archery and english darts...
As you see the bullseye is rather small: it takes a pinpoint shot on a 1,2 cm black dot for the maximum score...
Full Cmas rules in this link:
CMAS - Tir sur cible

Re, Guns. The gun you use is quite...big. We rarely, if ever, use a 120 with 2 bands and +7mm shaft for spearfishing, never mind target shooting.
That's the type of gun we use for tuna and AJ's, which is not our everyday average type of hunting over here.

I think it's quite obvious that your pool shotting habits reflcts you hunting habits (big fish, clear water), while our pool shooting habits reflects our hunting habits (small fish, short viz). So nothing's wrong on either side!
 
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Thanks for the information, I will have to try that. The 1.2cm bullseye is for what distance? It must be for 4 meters I think. Our distance is a little longer at 6 meters, which is why the target is much bigger. I can tell you that at 6 meters it is quite difficult to estimate how much drop you will get for the shaft and is especially difficult because you are aiming at something you cannot see since you have to adjust elevation so high. I don't know if the thinner shafts will work OK, but I don't think so. The thin shafts if they are put under too much power will "wobble" and will not be accurate. Maybe if someone made an enclosed shaft you can use thinner shafts even at 6 meters, but I haven't seen anyone try. I have tried the 6.75mm shafts and they are OK also, but I feel 7.1mm is best.

I will have to try a 1.2cm target, but at 6 meters it will be very difficult to hit consistently. At 4 meters I think should be possible. I feel with a few more modifications to my gun I might be able to keep accuracy to around 2.5cm groups at 6 meters. At the moment I can keep my shots inside a 4.5cm group pretty easily. I have twice shot 30 shots in a row inside such a bullseye at 6 meters. It is very hard to keep shots less than that because to be honest the guns are still not that accurate. I feel that with the Riffe the rubber on top of rubber is not a good solution as one rubber eats the other rubber and quickly causes power drop which is difficult to anticipate and thus your shots will start creeping down. There is a few things that I have done that have improved accuracy by quite a bit, maybe after this years competition is over I will post my mods and post a video :t
 
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