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Progressive band setup?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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J

JCooke

New Member
Feb 24, 2008
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A thought crossed my mind about bands on a gun. Has anyone placed the bands on a gun in a way that a huge amount of power is put into the spear while it is still in the barrel. Ill try to explain. Say you have 3 places where the bands mount down the barrel one 2 feet out, one 3 feet out, and one 4 feet out, from the shark fins. The 2 foot out band be the hugest thing you can load, 3 feet out one a little less, and the 4 foot out be a normal band that you would use. Would this send the spear down the barrel,in the track more or less, with a huge amount of force and go faster than normal so the flexing of the shaft wouldnt happen like if you were to load the gun with allot of bands at the end? Or am I high?...lol


JasonC
 
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That is an interesting idea, but why won't you just use the same diameter rubber cut to the right length for 300% stretch on each band.
 
Well thinking that the first shortest one just be a power house for the first say foot or two of acceleration while the shaft is still in the track. This thought is kinda following the idea of use small shafts and getting the same punch a big gun.

It was spured by the thread of a few guys said that they werent "inspired" by huge guns and it got me thinking.....kinda when the new .17 cal rifle hit the market. Small round with a large grain cartridge.


Jason
 
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Oh Im not fully up to speed on the dos and dont of bands yet....little green...

JasC
 
you're high.
me too.
LOL
i dont think it would work the way you want. the longer a band stretches, the more it has an effect on the spear. a small band/ short band will only react on the spear for a sort period= short power. essentially, you would be wasting an opportunity to have the bands that ARE THERE, doing what their potential is. it would be like a 3 band gun, with all the clutter and time consuming loading factors, but it would only have the power of a 1.75 band gun. what you should be looking into ,(like i have lately) is rollerguns, doeas basically the opposite of your idea: ONE band doing the power of 2 or more. it seems THAT is what you want, something simpler with less time loading, but alot of power in a small package. seems the thing to do is improve the design of one of these guns, till it has the power of three bands, the new beauchat- pacifica is a new rollergun with big hype and big price tag$ i'm gonna make myself one soon,(a rollergun, not like the pacifica)
 
Liking the debate here.
The purpose of the three band progressive would be applying as must force possible while its mostly in the track, and the last band applying load like normal. Loading would be the same, as a 3 bander. put your shortest band on the fin closest to the trigger, number 2 on the second,3 on the farthest from the trigger .
Im not thinking totally clear today(allergy problems) but it seems sound. For debate purposes say the shortest a 3/4 inch band,middle 5/8,last and longest 9/16.

Im not sold on a roller to me it seems that the band making a 180 turn on a roller would loose allot of its power being that has to bend the corner.

JC
 
the shorter bands would do too little to effect the spear. for what you are talking about to work, the shorter bands would have to be tighter than the lomger ones , if that is the case , how do you cock them? plus a 24" band stretch is not even close to the same power as a 48" band stretch. so the shorter bands wouldnt do much to add to the power of the gun,and a roller gun utilises the power on the top of the track, once it turns the corner, the spear is already gone, it effectively pushes the whole way down the track. i think you are fundamentally flawed in your thinking about how bands push spears. it has to be pushing on the spear to effect its flight. the longer it pushes, the more it effects the spear. how tight the band is, also effects it,but for the sake of argument we would have to assume they are as tight as you can manage to pull. no more no less. so if the band is as tight as you can manage to pull, the LONGER it pushes, the faster it goes, the longer the shot. so a band that is as tight as you can manage to pull, only pushes halfway down the track, it wont be as powerful as a band coming all the way from the muzzle
 
LOL, we are kinda on the same page, let me refine the thought, engineering in a forum...lol,

K....Im thinking to do super strong push in the track, a medium push... tip showing and a normal push as if it on a regular configured gun all the way....Also to use a 44" x 1/4 shaft in a say 65" gun. Short super band one will use all its power till the shafts just exits the track, number 2 band (the max power poss) is still pushing until shaft has left say half way out of the track, number 3 longest pushing all the way through.....

all the bands would be different sizes,the smallest being the biggest power and down from there..... etc

trying to eliminate the push outside the track and use super lite gear

Now if you over power your shafts i have read they will flex and head where ever the tip is pointing half way out of the track and on....?.... like + 3-6 huge bands.

24 vs 48 length band the same size is just pushing longer so more push.... i get that part.

loading the or cocking you would have a order so they are all parallel, 3 fins

I think a test run or a pic would help


JC
 
In all my years, and I've looked at hundreds of good guns, I've never seen something like that. It seems like the opposite of what they developed in archery but when it comes to reducing shaft bending, I wonder. There's only one 'real' way to find out if it works.
 
I guess basically im trying to get the sucker (shaft) movingits full maximum speed before it leaves the track.and It being supported by the track you could give it as much power as poss.

JC
 
1/4" shaft will bend when the fish fights it. it may hit hard, from velocity. but after that it would bend from the reef. skinny shafts are nice but i dont go smaller than 9/32"
 
Then a slip tip would need to be part of it...... that has all of its parts streamlined no large than the shafts diameter.
 
I have used 1/4 shafts for 30 years in long and short guns, without enclosed
tracks. When powered and aimed correctly they are very deadly to fish
as large as 110 lbs.
My double gun has a 46.5'' x 1/4'' shaft powered by a 5/8 band that has taken over 50 bluewater gamefish over 40lbs and a few over 50#.
Where 1/4 shafts fall short is the ability to drag over sized shooting line long distances with their lower mass.

A 22 pistol is just as deadly as a 460 Weatherby in the hands of of some one
who has very good stalking skills.

Cheers, Don
 
so you're saying you hunt regularly with a 1/4" shaft? and dont bend it ?
weatherby is alot more likely to kill you than a 22. lets be real.if what you were saying is true. why even have any other caliber weapons.? if a .22 can do it all, they would only have them. truth is, i owe it to myself to use the proper gear for the fish i am hunting. a .22 could probably kill a bear with a good shot through the eye. but a person wouldnt GO hunting bears with a .22. he would need the weatherby. is it possible he could kill the bear with a .22? sure it is. would you go out huntung bears with a .22? why not? i think maybe i wouldnt do it because it would likely injure the bear and not kill it ,(not right away) and the bear would run off and die a week later from the wound. if i shoot a 110 lb fish ,(as you sugest) with a 1/4" sahft and it pulls out/ and or bends. can i say it was acidental? or bad luck if it tears off?,(then dies a week later from the wound) it seem like it is the MOST likely thing to happen. to actually LAND a huge fish with a small spear is a "feat" but i prefer to use the proper gear, a 5/16 shaft for anything over 50lbs , and a 3.8 shaft for over 150 approx. dont get me wrong i dont care what you do. i'm just commenting in the spirit of a good natured debate. the average diver definately should NOT shoot 110 lb fish with 1/4" spear. just because YOU did it once. doesnt make it the thing to do. there is a reason they make bigger shafts.,(other than money) DONT TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY, i dontpretend to know everything. and i respect your knowledge, i just disagree sir.
 
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I can see were the mass of the small shaft may not carry the line at the time of the shot.
 

I have killed 100's of fish over 30# with a 1/4'' shaft and my Tahiti friends do it 7 days a week. I very seldom lose fish I shoot because I brake spines
and place head shots. I do pull the trigger with my 1/4 shaft as much as I do on my 9/32, but if I target 1000# Black Marlin yes I use a 6' 3/8 shaft
and all cable shooting line.
I you look back over 25 years you will find Jay Riffe's first gun; a 40''
wood barrel with a 1/4 shaft. That gun sold around the world in large numbers and landed many record fish with the stock 1/4'' shaft.
If you look at a few Ausie spero sites, you will find many very large game fish
taken with thin shafts. On large wahoo a 1/4 17/4 shaft can flex greatly and not tear out meat.

I'm with you 100% on the bear thing, am not a good bear stalker, I have to rely on my 300 and 460 Weatherby's in that area.

It's all good mate, discussions are a way we share knowledge.:friday
Cheers, Don Paul
 
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I guess i just feel this way because of where i live. i cant really comment on what some guy is doing in tahiti, or fiji, since i have never been there. from what i do know about things, i find it hard to believe they are on the cutting edge of anything frankly. let alone high end spearfishing gear. when i hear stories from that region, its usually something like , "they are hunting with a gun from the 70's with like one crappy band. they are great breath holders and there areas arent fished out, so they get results. they are using 1/4" shafts and such, because they cant afford the newer better stuff. not because they have all shaft sizes and they choose what they want. here in florida, one of our main target species is black grouper. 1/4" shaft WILL bend on a 30# black if you dont stone it . and despite what you say, NOBODY stones EVERY fish. NOBODY.. and the first black you shoot and dont stone, will do the roll they do, and bend your spear in half. the commercial guys i know, use 5/16 shafts, and bend them up all the time. going with a 1/4" is just asking for trouble. i guess if you just refrained from shooting anything unless you had a kill shot. but then you would be skipping tons of good fish. i shoot alot of fish, i stone alot of fish, i also bring home alot of fish that i didnt stone. the reason we started this conversation,(i think i remember) is that jcooke is talking about making a 1/4" shaft fly so fast, it hits with the force of a bigger shaft, this way of thinking doesnt work in water,(i dont believe) the weight of the actual spear has alot to do with thepunching power OF the shot, right? so a smaller spear isnt going to punch hard enough.(right?) with a slip tip, you could overcome the bending shaft part a little, but it still shouldnt penetrate well. no? whether or not, some guy pulled it off , because thats all they had to work with at the time or place really doesnt mean anything now, since we ,(or atleast "I")currently have choices in gear. you have obviously been around ALOT more than me, so maybe you know better. but i just dont see it,(on this subject) maybe its just my ignorance. the one thing i'm not ignorant of, is my own ignorance.LOL
 
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1/4" shaft will bend when the fish fights it. Quote: jtkwest.

This is what I disagreed with based on my empirical knowledge of spearfishing around the world for 30 years.
Don Paul
 
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