Psychological component to contractions

[Penyu]

Hi there,

I wonder if there is a psychological component to the onset of contractions?

My contractions start quite early at the best of times. When doing STA in a pool usually at 1:30, never later than 2:20. That's when I am totally relaxed. The other day I went diving in an alpine lake. It had 10° C, poor visibility and was only my 6th time diving deep ever. I have been training DYN and DNF in a pool for about 6 months though. Contractions basically started immediately, probably before I hit -10m. Now I wonder, was that a physiological consequence of the adverse environmental conditions or due to the fact that I was definitely not relaxed? If relaxation, or lack thereof, should be the crucial factor, I wonder if its the increased O2 usage and corresponding CO2 build up due to stress alone (seems to be too dramatic a difference) or if early contractions could be triggered by mindset alone. The difference being that in the former case, they function as the regular alarm, in the latter there would be more 'in the tank' than the contractions would suggest. I hope my question is not too convoluted.

Curious to hear about other peoples experience with difference in timing of contractions.
Best

 

[Kars]

Hi there,

I wonder if there is a psychological component to the onset of contractions?

My contractions start quite early at the best of times. When doing STA in a pool usually at 1:30, never later than 2:20. That's when I am totally relaxed. The other day I went diving in an alpine lake. It had 10° C, poor visibility and was only my 6th time diving deep ever. I have been training DYN and DNF in a pool for about 6 months though. Contractions basically started immediately, probably before I hit -10m. Now I wonder, was that a physiological consequence of the adverse environmental conditions or due to the fact that I was definitely not relaxed? If relaxation, or lack thereof, should be the crucial factor, I wonder if its the increased O2 usage and corresponding CO2 build up due to stress alone (seems to be too dramatic a difference) or if early contractions could be triggered by mindset alone. The difference being that in the former case, they function as the regular alarm, in the latter there would be more 'in the tank' than the contractions would suggest. I hope my question is not too convoluted.

Curious to hear about other peoples experience with difference in timing of contractions.
Best

Yes a convoluded question, but I'll give it a try.

Since you're a beginner, the mentioned contraction start times are normal. As you progress they will become more consistant and shift to a bit later, because you know what to expect and your mind knows how to slow down your metabolism and avoid fear and weighing, judgeing thoughts.
Competition adds stress, but one can learn to reduce that too.
For me and most other advanced divers i've seen the contraction start moment fals in line with the start of the lowering of the blood soluded O2,saO2.
Diving static is a very controlled activity, and therefore less mentally challanging, less physically challanging then dynamic or depth. With more challanging factors it is harder to have consistant low O2 usage. Diving to depth in cold water, for the first time, is very challanging. Your body Is freaked out by the cold, - can be mentally controlled - ,and increases metabolism to keep warm. It also releases adrinalyn to fight or flee this alien situation. Add tho this that at depth the surface is far away, taking away the option to instantt safety, another stress factor. Now add darkness, reduced visibility and a vertical head down orientation. Oh and what about being connected to a lanyard? And then there is the unknown water pressure, the chest and diafragm being sqeezed and stretched beyond to what you've every experienced in your life. It can feel lik an elephand is stranding on you chest.
Add in equalisation... duckdive... finning... turning...

Doing 10m for a beginner is already a big feat of courage and trust in the instructor.
You're doing a great job, and you just need more in water time to get familliar and comfortable with this totally new enviroment, and the pile of new skills.

From experience I find great value in diving gracefully to modest depth and just hang or lay down for a moment or two, and longer to relax the body, close your eyes and become comfortable at depth.

 

[Penyu]

For me and most other advanced divers i've seen the contraction start moment fals in line with the start of the lowering of the blood soluded O2,saO2.

That would mean that the early onset of contractions really is coupled to high O2 consumption due to the combination of physical and psychological factors. I certainly felt the very different (not very relaxing) circumstances to a pool static that you so aptly describe. Just wondered if the effect on O2 consumption could be quite so pronounced.

From experience I find great value in diving gracefully to modest depth and just hang or lay down for a moment or two, and longer to relax the body, close your eyes and become comfortable at depth.

I very much share your approach of gently and 'gracefully' improving. Pushing the limits overly hard (and going beyond them, i.e. Samba & BO) is something I do consciously want to avoid in my newfound passion of freediving. Done that in each and every other sport I engaged in so far (often resulting in overtraining and injury), but to me this clashes with the calm, beautiful aesthetic of freediving.

 

[Kars]

That would mean that the early onset of contractions really is coupled to high O2 consumption due to the combination of physical and psychological factors. I certainly felt the very different (not very relaxing) circumstances to a pool static that you so aptly describe. Just wondered if the effect on O2 consumption could be quite so pronounced.



I very much share your approach of gently and 'gracefully' improving. Pushing the limits overly hard (and going beyond them, i.e. Samba & BO) is something I do consciously want to avoid in my newfound passion of freediving. Done that in each and every other sport I engaged in so far (often resulting in overtraining and injury), but to me this clashes with the calm, beautiful aesthetic of freediving.

Yes O2 consumption and CO2 production can be very high. Dolphins in stress can only hold their breath for something like 25 seconds, instead of the 15 minutes when tbey are relaxed. The upside of this is that there is plenty of room for big leaps of improovments, as you'll discover the next session when you know what to expect, adapt your preparation, and simplyfy your routine a bit. Like with other sports and learning, it helps to focus only on parts of the total routine.
For the depth crushing experience it is important to have a warm and stretched upper body. If you got too cold the muscles are tense and cannot relax to allow the waterpressure to stretch your ribcage and diaphragm. If you feel crushed at 10, make a dive to 7 and learn to relax your muscles there. For deepdiving one need to give in to the water.

 

[Penyu]

Yes O2 consumption and CO2 production can be very high. Dolphins in stress can only hold their breath for something like 25 seconds, instead of the 15 minutes when tbey are relaxed.

Very interesting what you say about dolphins. You're right what that means in terms of scope for improvement gained from better relaxation alone. Personally I find it hard to leave performance expectations behind. With most people calling everything up to -25/30 'shallow dives' I feel I ought to make it easy to -20. In reality I struggle with relaxation (and contractions and equalisation as a consequence) at this depth.

Anyway, thanks a lot for the input! I'll treat early contractions as a sign for what they are: a reflection of my unrelaxed state of mind.

 

[baiyoke]

I have been much deeper but I always say that it's the first 20-30m that's the difficult. Because that's when you have all the trouble and need good technique. Relaxing pre-dive, good duckdive, apply adequate force through buoyancy change, and at the same time constantly equalize ear and mask, finding the depth for starting freefall and di your mouthfull... It's a busy first meters.... Later it's mostly about equalization, relaxation and pain

 

[up4dance]

Hi there does anyone also know what to look for when buying the fins? Soft, medium, hard? Does it matter if your body is fit and trained well or not at all? And then the size if have size 36.....I seem to have a situation here when it comes to buying fins.... And how does one order online without the possibility to try them on first??



Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

 

[baiyoke]

Hi there up4dance. Welcome to deeperblue.

Hijacking a random thread with a completely different question is bad idea.

Instead start a new thread in the most suitable catagory.

 

[up4dance]

That s easier said then done.......I still can not find my way in this app.....


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

 

[Penyu]

Later it's mostly about equalization, relaxation and pain

What do you mean by pain? As a former rock climber I know about pain and performance (knife edge holds to squeeze down on), but where does pain come into the picture in freediving?

Had the opportunity to do some more depth (well, very moderate, but nevertheless) diving over the last weekend. Now the water (Adriatic Sea in Croatia) was pleasant, so definitely no cold temps related contractions here. However, diving conditions weren't ideal, since I was by myself and hence my relaxation somewhat limited. Contractions basically started as soon as I hit my max depth at 15m. While I do understand Kars' point that stress increases O2 consumption, I cannot quite believe that my CO2 levels had built up to the point of onset of contractions after only 15-20 sec. dive time.

Could it be that contractions are not merely a sign of CO2 built up, but are also triggered by psychological state? And following from that, what to do the remain a more calm and relaxed mindset? I feel its a bit of a vicious circle with early contractions increasing anxiety levels.

 

[baiyoke]

What do you mean by pain? As a former rock climber I know about pain and performance (knife edge holds to squeeze down on), but where does pain come into the picture in freediving?

When I hold my breath for a long time it becomes very, very painfull at the end. Everybody I know off feel the same.

However, diving conditions weren't ideal, since I was by myself and hence my relaxation somewhat limited. Contractions basically started as soon as I hit my max depth at 15m.

Penyu diving alone is a very bad idea, and instead you should allways dive with a buddy. Doing max attempts alone is a very, very bad idea, and is right now the most possible cause of your future death by far... It would be a tragedy for you, your family, friends and other freedivers and the community. If not thinking about yourself, then think about your family and friends.

Have you done a freediving course? If not you should definately do it. Water seems harmless and soft, but freediving is tricky if you don't know what you do. A course is for most people the best ever spend money regarding safety.

 

[Penyu]

Penyu diving alone is a very bad idea....

Thanks a lot for your concern baiyoke. I really appreciate the warning and I am aware of SWB. It would never cross my mind to do any kind of max attempts static or dynamic when alone. Having said that I am somehow in a pickle here. The very moderate depth of 15m is on the one hand well within my ability (PB 80m DNF), but on the other hand the deepest I have been in open water. So max attempt yes and no. You are right of course, really there is no justification for the risk taken when diving alone. I guess being so aware of the risk in fact made me anxious and prevented proper relaxation. Hence the question of psychological components to contractions. I am relatively new to the sport and my static (4') is not impressive, but contractions starting as soon as I hit the bottom surprised me. In static they start between 1'20 and 2'20.

 

[Kars]

The contractions at depth are due to: 1 using much energy to get down, 2 lack of diaphragm and chest relaxation and flexibility, 3 not being used to the chest and diaphragm compression. Being dehydrated, tired etc. also makes for earlier contractions and shorter dives.

 

[Penyu]

The contractions at depth are due to: 1 using much energy to get down, 2 lack of diaphragm and chest relaxation and flexibility, 3 not being used to the chest and diaphragm compression. Being dehydrated, tired etc. also makes for earlier contractions and shorter dives.

Kars, I am sure you are right in all points. In fact I do feel that the new sensation of pressure past the first 10m induces both, contractions and a slight feeling of anxiety. With a conscious effort to relax I manage to regain calm. It also feels like that feeling of anxiety alone is enough to trigger contractions. Relating back to my original question this would either suggest some kind of de-coupling of contractions and CO2 build up or a super rapid use of O2 under stress with the corresponding CO2 build up leading to contractions. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[baiyoke]

Thanks a lot for your concern baiyoke. I really appreciate the warning and I am aware of SWB. It would never cross my mind to do any kind of max attempts static or dynamic when alone. Having said that I am somehow in a pickle here. The very moderate depth of 15m is on the one hand well within my ability (PB 80m DNF), but on the other hand the deepest I have been in open water. So max attempt yes and no. You are right of course, really there is no justification for the risk taken when diving alone. I guess being so aware of the risk in fact made me anxious and prevented proper relaxation. Hence the question of psychological components to contractions. I am relatively new to the sport and my static (4') is not impressive, but contractions starting as soon as I hit the bottom surprised me. In static they start between 1'20 and 2'20.

Penyu do me - and yourself - a favor Take a look at my respons in this thread, and the thread in general https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/i-little-issue.103194/#post-944467

About the contractions. I get contractions quite early also. Around 30-40m in DYN, earlier in DNF, and around 15-25 m in depth. Especially on my first dive (No-warmup).

 

[Penyu]

Penyu do me - and yourself - a favor Take a look at my respons in this thread, and the thread in general https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/i-little-issue.103194/#post-944467

Hey baiyoke, I think reading these threads really brought the message home. Thank you very much for your concern and for going through the trouble of warning me so thoroughly. I guess diving alone is similar to free soloing in rock climbing (that is climbing alone without a rope). Some do it despite the certain death if something goes wrong (like a hold breaking). I never did, not even way below my level of difficulty. Should apply the same caution for my diving.

What interests me now is how safe diving with a buddy really is? Are SWB frequently turned into a happy ending due to vigilant buddies? What are peoples experiences with that? In backcountry skiing for example, every year many people are rescued from suffocating under and avalanche by appropriately trained skiing partners. The buddy system works well. Does the buddy system in diving actually work and happen, or is it more like these safety cards in planes that tell you about the safe procedure in case of a crash landing, but all they really do is create a false sense of security, since crash landing usually end up in no survivors. I would be really interested to hear of people that have or have been rescued!

Thanks a lot again for all the concern and engagement!

 

[Kars]

Kars, I am sure you are right in all points. In fact I do feel that the new sensation of pressure past the first 10m induces both, contractions and a slight feeling of anxiety. With a conscious effort to relax I manage to regain calm. It also feels like that feeling of anxiety alone is enough to trigger contractions. Relating back to my original question this would either suggest some kind of de-coupling of contractions and CO2 build up or a super rapid use of O2 under stress with the corresponding CO2 build up leading to contractions. What are your thoughts on this?

From your words I get the impression the anxiety is currently your main obstacle. It could also be the cold water/themocline, that causes your body to tense up to resist it. For the temperature more (good fitting) neoprene on the head and body area helps a lot. For the anxiety a buddy, visibility, safety and being warm will help a lot.
On the Safety for freediving, yes the buddy system is practical and effective. Just take note of the number of black outs at competitions, and know that 99.99% have been saved without permanent injury. I have been saved numerous times during competition as I was pushing my boundaries too much, in both pool and CWT. Going out on your way back from CWT is like swimming into a dream, it feels like falling asleep during those last 30-20 meters. On the surface in the arms of a safety you'll be not aware of what has happened, as the last 10 seconds of your conscious time is not in your memory. I've seen people perform a surface protocol being held up next to the rope, and awaiting a white card, being surprised to see a red, believing they made it up ok, and then wondering why they are being held up

The best thing you can do is to seek and plan a course nearby, or during a vacation, and explore the depths with an instructor.
Finding an experienced buddy is also an option; provided he's able and willing to teach you into getting comfortable at depth.

 

[J Campbell]

Unfortunately, even with a buddy, things can go bad. Even if you have a competent buddy, if he can't see you or reach you, then you might as well be alone. Many spearos fish in murky water with their buddies, and as soon as they go under, they disappear from view.
The good news is that most SWBs happen on or near the surface, and if you are in clear water and can be seen, and you have a buddy to recover you, then you will most likely be fine. Common sense and caution should prevail here.

 

[harrychamas]

Personally I think contractions are 80% psychological. I’ve always struggled with contractions in static, but not depth. So I chose a dry static time that I know I could do easily enough while still going through some contractions (3 mins).
The aim of the exercise was to keep count of how many contractions I get and try to reduce them with each breath hold. In the end I could do the hold with no contractions.
I did just 1 or 2 holds per day so the result's had nothing to do with your typical CO2/O2 table.
Once I realized how mental the contractions was they became less of a big deal in depth also, I learned I could fully stop premature contractions, I’m limited for my depth here but I’m doing 35m cnf with no hyperventilation and no contractions now.
I'm looking forward to getting the chance to see how all this training translates once I get to some real depth.

Freediving takes time to settle into, once you start to develop your relaxation it becomes so much more than just a breath up, duck dive, equalization and finning.
For me I’m ready to dive when I feel like I’m about to go to sleep, and the dive itself is close to a dream state.
The trasition from "lets see how deep i can go" to how i dive now was all in my mind.

May the force be with you........

 

[Penyu]

...and again three excellent replies! Thanks a lot for all your insight. I come to love this forum.

@Kars: quite right, anxiety seems my biggest obstacle, followed by low CO2 resistance . I have experienced that before in other sports, where my physical abilities exceeded my mental fortitude. Often, and maybe also now, related to being overly ambitious and goal oriented.

@mark Jeffrey: good point and particularly true in the Alpine lakes I dive in. Often the diver is out of sight after a couple of kicks and one is left on the surface waiting for him to pop up again.

@harrychamas: this sounds like a good exercise. Will do it and report the results. Somehow I can sense the beauty of diving beyond ambition and physical exercise, but I also realize that much of that is clouded by being too conscious of technique, depth, time. Looking forward to break free from this preoccupation. Having said that, my current ambitions are not with comps or great depths. If one day I can safely dive to max 30m and cruise at 15-20 while being calm and fully enjoying the moment, I have arrived.

Cheers!