Question about 7mm suit tightness

[Homerkp]

Hey everyone, I'm going to share the context so that maybe someone can impart a little wisdom.

I got my first wet suit (3mm Pathos) in August. I'm about 183 and weigh 75kg. I was 80+ for a while but that was when I went to the gym and ate more to build muscle. After the store owner recommended the medium, I had some doubts based on the brand guide, wondering if I should be a large, but it fit perfectly.

A couple weeks ago I go to buy one for the winter. He recommends a 7mm. I have him put one of those pee tubes in the front cause I didn't do the best job myself on the 3mm. Seeing as the 3mm fit perfectly and I was satisfied overall, I got the exact same brand and suit, just the 7mm equivalent.

Now I've been told that heavier suits allow less movement, but right away I noticed this one was much harder to put on. I wondered if he gave me a small by mistake but I saw the M. My head barely fit through the opening. The pants are a struggle to get all the way up and it almost feels as though the pee tube is a bit low because of it. I made do. After I got the whole thing on, I sat down to relax my breathing. Without the hood on, the rubber presses against my throat. It's bearable but uncomfortable. When I put the hood on, it's tight enough that I feel pressure in my head and eye sockets. My hands are slightly puffed because the arm tightness every so slightly cuts the circulation. Anyway this is outside the water, not so important.

The first dive a few days ago, I kinda got used to it, but maybe I forgot cause I was overjoyed seeing some rare fish. That evening my head hurt, but I though it might've been the elements cause I felt borderline feverish, but it went away later on. Today I dive again, and for most of the dive I feel as though I can't get a full breath because of the tightness on my torso. I counteracted this a little by holding my float, lying horizontally, and relaxing my breathing as much as possible. This helped. Coming up from dives though I noticed the sensation of struggling a bit more to breathe. You want that unimpeded air when you come up, but this felt somehow limited.

Anyway, after 2 hours I get because the overall tightness and slightly impeded breathing does make the whole ordeal more tiring. With the 3mm suit I'd stay in 3-4 hours and never wanna get out. I got out of the water a couple hours ago. I'm now at home and I do have a very slight headache.

Now does this sound too tight? Or is it normal to squeeze into the tightest thing you can stand in the winter? I realize this will also keep more water out. Is it possible that in the same brand the medium 3mm fits perfectly yet for the 7mm I'd need a large?

I'm trying to find out for sure before I go back to the store. If it's definitely too small do you guys think the owner bears any responsibility? He's a professional diver who makes bank as he's the only shop in the area, plus he dives 40m and sells fish to restaurants. I've bought a ton of stuff in the shop already and I'd hate to find out that I just got unlucky and have to buy a whole new suit.

 

[DivingNomad]

Now does this sound too tight?

It pretty much does and unsafe.

Or is it normal to squeeze into the tightest thing you can stand in the winter?

No, not at all.

Is it possible that in the same brand the medium 3mm fits perfectly yet for the 7mm I'd need a large?

3mm is much more flexible and forgiving than a 7mm. You should have tried the suit in the store BEFORE you took it home. From your description, M is the wrong size for you in 7mm suit. It is unsafe and you should find a better fitting suit, snug but not tight or uncomfortable and certainly should NOT cause you pain, discomfort or restriction in your breathing.

 

[Homerkp]

Damn that's a shame. Any chance these things stretch? We're in quarantine but I'll call the store owner tomorrow. Perhaps I could pay some of the difference if he agrees to switch it for a large...

 

[DivingNomad]

Any chance these things stretch?

Not AFAIK. It should fit from the first time. You shouldn't use it at all for your own safety.

 

[Johny Depth]

The Sporasub older model an Omer presented me with sutch restrictions.In winter blood circulation is important to avoid the cold.The 3mm suits are more simple to wear thats true.Seven mm more dense rigid due to thickness.With my cressi scorfanno 7mm i found to have very elastic capacity.If you Dont get a refund perhaps the shop keeper has another customer with a suit to large,Or you could purchase a jacket if all else fails ,Through time mishaps become very few ,One difficulty becomes a mountain climb .Then when on top of a mountain we discover we are standing on a pebble stone .Then finding our selfs being prepared for the next mountain climb!hope the next suit provides you with a better distance from the last one

 

[Homerkp]

I spoke to the owner. Although we're in quarantine he was somewhat sympathetic cause he backtracked saying "are you sure you didn't say 70-75 kilos?" which I didn't. He also agreed it sounds too small. He's gonna speak to someone about tailoring it, but I doubt I'll go that route. I'd rather buy a large and look for a buyer. He also has a page to sell such things. Yeah I don't wanna be struggling to breathe and working twice as hard. It's supposed to be a pleasant experience. Luckily it's still warm here in Greece so I'll take the 3mm out today... just for a dive, no spearfishing allowed.

Frustrating cause the thickness was perfect, meaning I found that I could seamless move from 3 to 7 mm and avoid cold all year round.

 

[Johny Depth]

The next move could be Internet to purchase a suit.When a store keeper changes the facts to fiction its time to better a new reality shop else were to avoid further appointments with disappointments,. When i choose a suit i choose the chest size 1st .I use the metric size in cm its more precise .,Fat mass is lighter to Muscle mass being heavier,.when we change in our 20s 30s as time passes we build muscle this is when we find our necks torso ect former cloths make way to the new body dimensions the same for women ,.The lock down in italy from last sunday permits us to stay in our community with out bordering or entering the other community.I am forbiden to travel 30 km distance to the beach.Spearfishing is not permissable at present,The temp here of the water is 8to 9 c getting colder.

 

[Leander]

He's a professional diver who makes bank as he's the only shop in the area, plus he dives 40m and sells fish to restaurants.

Being an athlete doesn't make someone knowledgeable. It also shows in that he dives for fish (probably rofos and probably with a torch?), to sell it to restaurants. Not really future-proofing our activity nor our sea this way.

But... Why a 7mm... In Greece?! I dive with 3mm during winter and stay in the water for 6+ hours (I'm skinny, so hardly any bioprene).

Weight is the worst measure btw. Youc an have people of different body types weighing the same. Bones, muscle and fat all have vastly different densities.

 

[Homerkp]

The next move could be Internet to purchase a suit.When a store keeper changes the facts to fiction its time to better a new reality shop else were to avoid further appointments with disappointments,. When i choose a suit i choose the chest size 1st .I use the metric size in cm its more precise .,Fat mass is lighter to Muscle mass being heavier,.when we change in our 20s 30s as time passes we build muscle this is when we find our necks torso ect former cloths make way to the new body dimensions the same for women ,.The lock down in italy from last sunday permits us to stay in our community with out bordering or entering the other community.I am forbiden to travel 30 km distance to the beach.Spearfishing is not permissable at present,The temp here of the water is 8to 9 c getting colder.

Oh yeah? I thought you guys were allowed to fish. I'm gonna use what you said "my friends said if you don't switch the suit for me I should find a new shop" hehe. Maybe that'll help. I'd pay the difference knowing he'll have to resell it for a bit less, but honestly I think that's fair. You're right that he changed fact to fiction, since I was very clear about my weight, and now he says that size is wrong for my weight, which means he bears some of the blame.

Being an athlete doesn't make someone knowledgeable. It also shows in that he dives for fish (probably rofos and probably with a torch?), to sell it to restaurants. Not really future-proofing our activity nor our sea this way.

But... Why a 7mm... In Greece?! I dive with 3mm during winter and stay in the water for 6+ hours (I'm skinny, so hardly any bioprene).

Weight is the worst measure btw. Youc an have people of different body types weighing the same. Bones, muscle and fat all have vastly different densities.

I'm not that hardcore. I've heard of people going year round with 3, but I'm one of those who gets cold easily. Like I said, I didn't feel hot in the 7 yesterday. I took the 3mm today and although I stayed in for a couple hours I was cold at the end. I'd imagine you have a couple degrees on us also, being in Crete and all.

By professional I only meant he knows his gear, which he should. He's had the shop for some years and get lots of business. I see what you mean about weight. Oddly enough this guy who's a little guy, much shorter than I am said he wears a large 7mmm. So he sells a medium to a guy bigger than he is...

BTW I saw you posted on that group the other day, I'm Homer (just for future reference). Only posted a couple times trying to find out what the rules were..

 

[Johny Depth]

Let us Know how this story ends,.I got a suit 7mm made to measure 4 years ago from Elios sub ,camo very good,Then the suit was a month late.,The left knee pad was put on when in the suit the knee pad material anti scratch was on the left side of the leg,.My friend had the same suit made at the same time.We were told that this material was treated with a chemical that was water displacing!when we exit the water in cold winter the water displaces its self from the surface of the suit !this was found out to be fiction when confronted with our truth he said did you wash the suit in the washing machine the answer was no.The store owner played the game of saying are you sure .At that moment on i shopped else were i found more honest with better service else were and so did my friend an at a lower price.Eventually i bought a Cressi scorffano 7mm its a dream to reality for me know ,.I hope you find a good solution to better what is this present period,. Cressi cost me far less.Elios cost me 333 euro

 

[Homerkp]

Let us Know how this story ends,.I got a suit 7mm made to measure 4 years ago from Elios sub ,camo very good,Then the suit was a month late.,The left knee pad was put on when in the suit the knee pad material anti scratch was on the left side of the leg,.My friend had the same suit made at the same time.We were told that this material was treated with a chemical that was water displacing!when we exit the water in cold winter the water displaces its self from the surface of the suit !this was found out to be fiction when confronted with our truth he said did you wash the suit in the washing machine the answer was no.The store owner played the game of saying are you sure .At that moment on i shopped else were i found more honest with better service else were and so did my friend an at a lower price.Eventually i bought a Cressi scorffano 7mm its a dream to reality for me know ,.I hope you find a good solution to better what is this present period,. Cressi cost me far less.Elios cost me 333 euro

I'm actually going to the shop now. The guy is assuring me that his tailor will take my measurements and fix it to my size. This is because he's afraid he won't be able to sell it or have to sell it cheap. I'm not convinced yet. The suit is in perfect shape (except for the pee tube) so it seems a shame to make all these alterations instead of just removing the the tube and selling the suit for 20-30 less. I wish I'd asked around about the fitting quality of altered suits but alas I didn't think about it.

Anyway because he basically admitted that he made a mistake I'm gonna pressure him a bit now. Since it's a risk I don't have to take if he just exchanges it. I'd actually be fine with having the suit altered since theoretically it would fit me even better and plus he wouldn't have to worry about the resell. But I don't know if that will be the case.

 

[Mr. X]

Hmm. I wonder if they might just move the pissette? I think I would be inclined to cut my losses . Tight throat is a real no - no. Perhaps the pissette might help sell it - although it's used status might not!

I wonder if you might be better off with a 5mm suit - it's Greece for Heaven's sake! You may be getting too warm, in which case your neck, legs, etc. May swell up compared to, say, icy northern conditions. I.e. maybe your 7mm suit would you better in truly cold conditions. 7mm sounds excessive for the Med.

With a 5mm suit you'll need less lead too.

I've speared in the UK in November and January in a 5mm Eliossub suit. Seemed ok. Worth going for warmer booties and gloves.

Yes, fitting a stretchy 3mm suit is probably pretty easy, not typical of other sizes. That said, my 5.5mm Mares suit is very stretchy - but probably much less than a 3mm equivalent.

 

[Homerkp]

Hmm. I wonder if they might just move the pissette? I think I would be inclined to cut my losses . Tight throat is a real no - no. Perhaps the pissette might help sell it - although it's used status might not!

I wonder if you might be better off with a 5mm suit - it's Greece for Heaven's sake! You may be getting too warm, in which case your neck, legs, etc. May swell up compared to, say, icy northern conditions. I.e. maybe your 7mm suit would you better in truly cold conditions. 7mm sounds excessive for the Med.

With a 5mm suit you'll need less lead too.

I've speared in the UK in November and January in a 5mm Eliossub suit. Seemed ok. Worth going for warmer booties and gloves.

Yes, fitting a stretchy 3mm suit is probably pretty easy, not typical of other sizes. That said, my 5.5mm Mares suit is very stretchy - but probably much less than a 3mm equivalent.

Eh maybe I'm too sensitive to the cold haha. But the store owner suggested a 7 if I wanted something for all winter. Perhaps you're used to diving in colder climates? He said 5 was his personal favorite but it's only good for a brief period in spring and fall. It doesn't concern me much. I dove twice with the tight 7 and didn't feel hot at all. After I realized it was too tight I returned to my 3mm yesterday, but I was kind of cold. After a couple hours I got out.

Anyway I brought him the suit. He did thorough measurements of my dimensions and said that I was a large for the most part but my chest was small enough to be a medium. I weighed myself afterward and found I was 74kg! 6 years ago I was 84, but admittedly I was eating and lifting more weights. I hadn't been this light in years. I chalk it up to the meat diet I started a few months ago (for other health reasons). I stopped eating carbs and most of my body fat disappeared. So I don't think the guy was too far off after all. I'm not underweight but I must be thinner than the average for my height.

Anyway he sent it to someone who makes suits and will adjust it according to my height/size/weight/dimensions. Given that it's someone who does it for a living I'm hoping it'll come back fitting me even better than a medium or a large would. Hopefully by then they'll lift the fishing ban.

 

[Mr. X]

Fingers crossed, hope it works out. Yes carbs., Especially sugars, starches and other simple carbohydrates (e.g. alcohol) can be really bad for you - many of the things that used to be blamed on fats - obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease, dementia - are now looking more often to be caused by sugar, etc.. All those wasted decades when folk tried to lose weight by reducing fat

I too have reduced my intake of carbs in favour of fats, fibre and protein. Full fat milk, butter, eggs, meat, beans, lentils, etc. It works.

Trans-fats are really bad though, such as hydrogenated vegetable oils, used in vegetarian shortening and margarine. Cancer, heart disease,... Should have been banned years ago IMHO

 

[Leander]

Cancer, heart disease

And yet, with all the talk about cancer this and cancer that, they still managed to stall any progression away from the combustion engine. The only ones who hinted that cars might be bad for the health are the mafia with their exhaust-to-window 'suicides'.

Hopefully by then they'll lift the fishing ban.

They already started hinting that it might take longer than end of the month.

 

[Homerkp]

I wanted to follow up on this cause I'm caught between a medium and a large now. The store owner sent my suit to get adjusted and it was sent back cause the suit maker apparently uses preset machines or materials that didn't fit with my suit.

Anyway he's gonna slash the price and sell it used and take that much of a larger suit should I buy one. I'm pretty sure I need to but I just wanted to write about here first, cause it's not so simple after all.

I told him everything I told you guys. He was still doubtful because he says the 7mm is meant to be less flexible than a 3mm. I've dropped to about 73.5kg which actually does put me in the weight range for medium (up to 75kg). BUT.

The pants don't come all the way up as they should, leaving a pretty large empty space under the nether regions, whereas the pants on my 3mm suit come all the way up. This also makes the pee tube more of a hassle because it doesn't sit in front where it should be, but slightly below. So I'm pretty positive the pants are too small, even though the store owner was more surprised about the pants not fitting.

He lent me his top to try, which is a large, though 5mm. It was slightly big, a touch of space on the back, and a bit at the armpits. Tell-tale signs of a suit being too larger. However, I put the 3mm on now and it's similarly loose. This is because I'm 183cm and was nearly 80kg 2 months ago but I lost 5kg. So I tried the 7mm medium top on again, and though it fits me flush, it's quite hard to get into, much tighter on my arms, extremely tight on my head, and I can still feel as though it compromises my torso a bit so that I don't have the same freedom of breath. It's uncomfortable. When I got my first wetsuit (3mm) this summer I wouldn't say it was uncomfortable at all. It felt perfect, like a second skin as they say.

Now keep in mind the tightness of the store owner's large was the same as the tightness of my 3mm medium. Overall pressure against my skin that is.

Here is my conclusion. Seeing as the 3mm medium (which was perfect a couple months ago) fits me more similarly to a 5mm large than it does to a 7mm medium. I as a person must be in between a medium and large. Given that I've lost 5kg in the last few months and will surely gain it back, the 7mm which is still tight will only get tighter and the large which is slightly big will only fit me better.

What do you guys say?

 

[cdavis]

Your experience make a good argument for a custom suit.

You mention putting on the hood. Why? A good freediving suit should come with intergral hood, much warmer. If it fits right, its easy to slip off the head if too hot.

Seems like you would be much happier with a 5 mil integral hood custom suit.

 

[DivingNomad]

Still the same, a wetsuit should be "snug" but not tight or restricting breathing or uncomfortable at all. Snug and comfortable!!

 

[Homerkp]

I tried the medium 7mm again today. I think the tightness didn't bother my head as much and I'm able to get around, but I'm still restricted breathing. I get a slight anxiety even cause I have the sensation of having to fight to breath. Not good. I'd rather have a large that's a little loose until I gain my weight back than worry about drowning lol.

 

[Leander]

But a 7mm thats a little loose is probably less insulating than a well-fitting 5mm.

Decisions, decisions...

But by the time we're allowed near water again it's the 3mm season again.