Questions-(Static Apnea)!

[BlackPaw]

I hope i will get the answers for this questions, because i can't find them anywhere else on the internet.

I've been competing with my friends in breath holding (static apnea) and had the worst score (my time - 1:35sec maximum).

I want to improve this, many here on the forum are younger than me, and still can hold their breath for 5:00 +

1. While holding my breath (wet static apnea) i find it difficult, - air leaves my nose, and water enters and i must stop (this is because before trying to hold my breath i fill my lungs with air and immediately get underwater, and the pressure from the air in my lungs makes the air to leave through my nose), - so can you tell me what I am doing wrong here and how it should be done?

2. Also around 1:10sec i think i experience contractions, but i think its different from what is discribed here on the forum. My chest, stomach, diaphragma and heart all start to contract as if I was breathing, - after 10-20 sec, these contractions become very scary and i must stop, so is this normal, and does it have any negative effects on the heart lungs and other vital body parts?

3. About doing tables - ex. "8. ventilate 2:00 static 2:30", do i need to update this after some period of practice to for ex. "8 ventilate 1:00 static 3:00" or only practice as they were originally written?

4. Is it possible to find one's person maxinmum breath hold based on his weight, height, volume of chest?

5. Thanks i hope you will answer this questions, while i await imaptiently.

Thanks in advance.

 

[bite ya]

Wow, that's a lot of questions! I will try my best to answer all.
1. Water up the nose / air coming out
Most people will have some air escape from the nose when they first emerge themselves underwater, this is just air already in the nasel passage which when out wont leak air anymore. Air shouldn't leak out of your nose constantly unless you are pushing the air out? Could try a nose clip if you dont like the sensation or a mask.

2. Contractions
Yes your right, you are experiencing contractions! 10-20 contractions for someone of your experience is good, this is your bodies way of telling you that Co2 is building up, not a lack of o2. You can condition your body to tolerate more of these by using the Co2 tables which you can find on these forums. They dont have any negative effects on your body as we all go through them and learn to love and accept them (well sort of) I go though around 60-80 of them on a max attempt.

3. Tables
Vent for 2min breath hold for 80% of your max time then reduce your vent time down by 15sec whilst keeping the holding time the same, the first hold will seem hard but the second and third easier then fourth slightly harder as your resting/vent time is reduced. This will build up your bodys tolerance levels up to Co2.

4. Body volume
Can't help on this one, dont think you can base times around weight & height as there are some pretty awsome freedivers who are tiny (sara campbell) and hold world records. Lung capacity is definatly a must and this can be increased by some very advanced exercises which shouldn't be performed by anyone who doesn't know wha they are doing (i haven't got that far yet!!)

At last but not least....SAFTEY SAFTEY SAFTEY, if your doing this, in a pool, the sea in 1inch of water or 50mtrs of water you must have someone who knows what they are doing if you blackout. Breath holding can be really enjoyable but deadly if all goes wrong. A blackout will give you no warning and just happen and while your friends will be impressed by your time they might not realise you are unconcious!!

Be safe..

Chris Holmes

 

[cody909]

Very nice Respond Chris, My max is 5:01 and i did it once, since then, i havnt pushed, or really practiced my statics. About saftey he is 100% right, When i hit my PB, i had no one around, (dangerous) I knew what the symtoms were, altho i wasnt in water i knew somthing bad could still happen, i was seeing shit. i was holding breath and at about 2:40 i hit contractions, at about 3:40 i was dieing for air, but i managed for air, at around 4:50, i felt like i didnt need air anymore, i felt like i could keep goin, i knew i was on the verdge of a black out and resumed normal breathing. The more you can practice the better, every time for me contractions hit a little bit later, the later the contractions the better, meaning your body squirms less and uses less oxygen trying to control them....

For more help how i do my breath-ups ECT refer to my "How i do it" thread (Please note, My way consist of hyperventalation) Many people are agenst it. Personally i think it is safe if you know what your doing.

 

[serafino]

I hope i will get the answers for this questions, because i can't find them anywhere else on the internet.
I'll help with what I can. I'll mark everything in red so it stands out.
I've been competing with my friends in breath holding (static apnea) and had the worst score (my time - 1:35sec maximum).

I want to improve this, many here on the forum are younger than me, and still can hold their breath for 5:00 +
I'm 16 and can go around 4:30 dry static and about 5:00 static in the water. It gets better every time I practice. All you need is the determination to get better and lots of training to get better.

1. While holding my breath (wet static apnea) i find it difficult, - air leaves my nose, and water enters and i must stop (this is because before trying to hold my breath i fill my lungs with air and immediately get underwater, and the pressure from the air in my lungs makes the air to leave through my nose), - so can you tell me what I am doing wrong here and how it should be done?
Try using a mask that covers your nose or by using a nose plug. I hate when water gets in my nose.

2. Also around 1:10sec i think i experience contractions, but i think its different from what is discribed here on the forum. My chest, stomach, diaphragma and heart all start to contract as if I was breathing, - after 10-20 sec, these contractions become very scary and i must stop, so is this normal, and does it have any negative effects on the heart lungs and other vital body parts?
I'm not sure about this so I'll let someone else answer.

3. About doing tables - ex. "8. ventilate 2:00 static 2:30", do i need to update this after some period of practice to for ex. "8 ventilate 1:00 static 3:00" or only practice as they were originally written?
I personally don't use tables I find that by training enough I get the same results.

4. Is it possible to find one's person maxinmum breath hold based on his weight, height, volume of chest?
I think there are way to many variables to get that. Like alveoli gas exchange efficiency, lung volume, heart rate, blood pressure, water temp, wet suit thickness, how tight the wet suit is, how relaxed you are (which I don't think you can measure) and a heck of a lot more. So I would say the only way to find out is to try.

5. Thanks i hope you will answer this questions, while i await imaptiently.

Thanks in advance.

Hope this helps again all my comments are in red.

 

[cody909]

2. Also around 1:10sec i think i experience contractions, but i think its different from what is discribed here on the forum. My chest, stomach, diaphragma and heart all start to contract as if I was breathing, - after 10-20 sec, these contractions become very scary and i must stop, so is this normal, and does it have any negative effects on the heart lungs and other vital body parts?
I'm not sure about this so I'll let someone else answer.

It is normal to want to stop. It doesn't have any negitive effects. The more you get them, the more your tolerance will build to them. you will tend to enjoy them, or they become an alarm clock "You got about 1 min till you passout, savor that minute" haha

 

[BlackPaw]

Thanks to all, you've been very helpful.

The thing about the contractions was that, once they start they become faster and stronger - and when i stopped - i was feeling a little pain in my chest, but that would go away after several minutes.

But now that i know that there aren't any negative effects from the contractions im willing to spend time practicing

 

[cody909]

The only way i can compare contractions are to alcohol, The more you have of them more tolerance you build, and yes, once they start they dont stop and the get stonger, just try your best to control them, when i say control them, your body is wanting to squirm and what not, just try your best to stay still (Save oxygen)

 

[richiedubya]

this will sound like a stupid question but during dry breath holding if you pass out will you stop holding your breath and start to breathe again normally?

 

[bite ya]

Good question, i'm not 100% sure but you should start breathing again as your not running the risk of drowning. Blacking out is like passing out or fainting if you do it dry you wake up but if it's in the water you drown!! Hypoxic fit or "samba" is different as this is your bodies reaction to oxygen starvation, if you have one of these dry god knows what kind of injuries you could sustain??

 

[cody909]

Ive been extremely close to blacking out while dry breath hold and its really somthing to experence as a good thing, seeing clouds, just random ***** but from what ive herd from people that have blacked out was that you do start breathing immidatly

 

[drunkinbda]

The only way i can compare contractions are to alcohol,

lol didnt you say you were 15?? hmmmm????

 

[BlackPaw]

UPDATE:

Ive been doing breath holding the past 6 days (practicing dry, while lying on bed).

1. I'm only doing hypercapnic tables which i think are to train the body to tolerate high levels of CO2- Is this correct?

2. When i tried my personal best (-dry lying on bed) yesterday i managed to hold my breath 3'02"
Contractions started at 1:10-1-30, and i counted around 40-45 contractions, and I found that they aren't so scary, but while counting the last contractions i had a strong headache, and felt like my body is paralysing (then stopped and needed 10-15 min. to recover fully and return to normal) - Is this normal for beginners, how should i increase the time before contractions start (i.e. to be able to hold at least 2-3 min. without contractions)?

3. Does contractions have any negative effects to the body (especially the lungs, chest, and heart), cause after 6 days of of continuous practice i think i have a pain in my chest, maybe its the muscles or something else?

4. If i practice static underwater, how long it will take for a beginner like me to experience the mammalian diving reflex?

And the most important question for me....

What is the best method to reach my goal (5min. static apnea), and how long it will take? (I dont care if its 2weeks, 2 months or 2 years, just to know the approximate time that i need practicing to reach 5min. breath hold)

Hope to hear from you soon.

 

[bite ya]

Hello again BlackPaw, there is two types of tables one is Co2 which builds your tolerance to carbon dioxide and O2 tables which bulid your bodies tolerance to oxygen deprevation, so yes your correct but do them both. As i said the first time when doing Co2 tables keep the holding time the same (80% of your max) and the resting time from 2mins down 15secs each time you hold. In o2 tables keep the rest time the same but the holding time 15secs longer than the first (start at 50% of your max time) always keep to about 8 reps on each table.

I find dry statics very hard as your body is telling you your on land so "no reflex" training wet is much easier for me.

3min is a great time by the way! 40-45 contraction is also very good. In terms of the headache, i do suffer from these also on occations they come with the sport for some of us, maybe your sugar levels are a little low? I sometimes eat some dark choc before i train (tastes great, got good anti oxidents in and keeps the sugar level up)

The ony way to get your time up is to keep at it my friend. The contactions will have no damaging effect on your body but try not to train so much (3 times a week is enough) i think you may of pulled a chest muscle or stomach as they both tense in a big way when going through these contractions.

I have been training for 10mths now as my ultimate goal is to compete next year and i regually hit over the 5min mark on every training session now, this is mainly down to two things.

1. Speed of contractions
2. Breath up and prep

When i first starting counting the contractions (please dont look at your watch when training, just count the contractions and beat how many you can take not what time you can beat) i used to go through 60 of them in about a minute! I would rush my way through them. Then i started taking my time over the first 10 and speed through the last 50, then take my time through the first 20 and so on. Now i go through the first 30 really slowly and speed through upto 80. My goal each week is to increase how many slow contractions i take then i speed through the rest. This has put loads on my times and i feel more relaxed when going through them.

Breathing up is unique to each person, i like to do four negative hold first (no air in lungs) i find this really gets me used to being in the water. Then i use a snorkel and lay face down in the water with no mask on (you have little receptors under your eye lids which kick your reflex in) and i breath nice a easy for 5mins like this.

I then do two warm up holds taking only 10 contractions each time but taking them as slow as possible. Then i go for a max attempt.

keep at it and please let me know how you get on and don't forget SAFTEY!!!!

 

[BlackPaw]

Thanks a lot for your help again Chris, ill post here again when i feel that i need help and information again.

 

[Alpi]

Co2 tables keep the holding time the same (80% of your max) and the resting time from 2mins down 15secs each time you hold.

Hi!
@bite ya: You wrote 80% of max.! I read often about 50% with Co2
Is it successful for you?

It think it makes sense longer breathholdtime. But 80% is very hard for 8 reps?!

(Sorry for my bad englisch)

 

[bite ya]

no worries about your English, it's better than mine and i am English!!

Yes this works for me, it makes me work hard. The first one is always the worse, second one a bit easier and third is easy then after that it gets really hard on the last 4 reps as the resting time is short.

What works for one doesn't always work for all....

chris

 

[trux]

If you can do a hypercapnic table based on 80% of your PB, then I believe you do not push sufficiently when going for the max. Such high percentage is more usual at beginners who are not yet really able to reach any close to their physiological maximum. In such cases they can indeed repeat breath holds close to their psychological (not physiological) maximum even in a CO2 table. As soon as you get seriously close to your physical limits, you won't be able doing a proper CO2 table with breath holds longer than some 60%-70% of your PB.

In our club, we do hypercapnic tables starting with 1:30 rest, then decreasing it by 15s each round, until reaching 15s rest, and repeating the round with 15s three times. It makes more sense, and trains your CO2 tolerance better than starting with 2 min rest and ending after the first 15s round. So from this point of view, with the longer rests, the 80% may be indeed still possible even at intermediate freedivers, not only at beginners.

Beginners in our club do the above mentioned hypercapnic tables (starting with 1:30 rest, ending with 3 rounds at 15s rest) with breath hold times of 1:00 to 1:30. Intermediate freedivers usually use apnea times between 2:00 and 2:45. And the advanced ones, when getting above 3:00 times in the CO2 table, use a shorter version - starting with 1:00 rest and ending with 5 x 0:15 rest, otherwise it would simply get too long.

And do not forget: no hyperventilation, purges, or "deep relaxed breathing" (which is usually hyperventilation too)! That only kills the purpose of the CO2 table. The purpose of the table is not making longer breath holds, but increasing your CO2 tolerance. By blowing off the excess CO2 during the rest, you only reduce the efficiency of the training.

 

[bite ya]

Well as i said what works for one doesn't work for all, I do push to what i belive is my absolute max when i really go for it but as you said i'm still a newbie and only been training for 10mths after my first AIDA course.

I get your point with repeating the last 15secs a few times, i certainly wouldn't be able to repeat what i do now as a max or percentage with another two reps to add on, so yes, i'll give that a go tomorrow when i'm training.

I don't think you can just put people in a beginner, intermidate or advanced box, i'm a beginner and if i done your intermediate times i would'nt even have a contraction mine dont even start until i reach 2" 45 - 3"mins (please correct me if i'm wrong and have the objective of using tables incorrect) i thought the point of going through the tables was to build tolerance up of CO2 which causes you to have contractions? If i have no contractions then i'm not building up any tolerance? (again, slap me if i'm wrong trux, you more experienced than me)

I do not use any type of purging or hyperventilation as i totally agree this kills the whole reason why we do tables! Sometimes i completly empty my lungs and do it that way (not 80% but more like 10% of my personal best, they hurt)

Thanks, i will try the 15sec repeated reps tomorrow.

Chris

 

[trux]

When I spoke about beginners, I meant those who start in the club for the first time, and had no previous experience with freediving, spearfishing, or breath holding. They are typically able to hold their breath for one or two minutes. After a few weeks it usually rises significantly. Intermediate freedivers, from my point of view, are those who already had some experience, or completed the first year in the club. They are typically able to hold at least 3 minutes, usually 4, or more. Advanced freedivers (often competitors) typically hold about 5 minutes and more.

It does not mean, of course, that a newcomer cannot hold much longer. I also saw a national record holder who can swim 200m dynamics, but never passed the 5 minutes barrier in statics. From this point of view, you will always find people who won't fit into the boxes, but generally it works pretty well (based on experience with around 150 freedivers I saw passing our courses).

If you can do 3 minutes without contractions even in the last round (or in the last three rounds with 15 s of rest), then you certainly have pretty good predispositions and can (and should) improve your PB significantly, not to have to train CO2 tables with 80% of your max. In such case I'd also highly recommend, not starting with a 1:30 rest, but directly with 1 minute and repeating the 15 s rounds five or more times. Otherwise, when doing CO2 tables with such long breath holds, and starting with 1:30 or even 2:00 rest, you get tired, cold, and hypoxic before you get into the desired level of hypercapnia. And besides it, it is just wasting of time and boring if the CO2 table gets over 30 minutes long.

 

[bite ya]

I take your point Trux, i'll try it tomorrow at the pool starting from 1min and increase the 15sec reps to 3 or 4 on the 15sec rest, i'm sure i will struggle but that's the point of doing them. I will also enjoy not getting so bloody cold and bored!!

Thanks again for your wisdom Trux it is appriecated, i really want to complete next year in static and dynamic and i want to be all i can be for it! I need to get my bouyancy right first though as i still cant kick and glide. I made another neck weight this week 2kgs this time so i'l give it another go tomorrow!

Thanks
Chris