Questions without answers

[joefox]

1) Why do freedivers spit blood after deep diving or even dynamic in 15 meters? How can this phenomenon be avoided?

2) What are the consequences of repeated sambas and blackouts?

3) What happens if a freediver is rescued "the AIDA way" after a deep blackout?

4) If we want to promote competitive freediving, shouldn't we try and answer those questions first?

Please don't say "Freediving would be dangerous even without promotion", because promoting a discipline involves more responsibiliy than practising it by yourself (expecially when money is involved).

Thank you for your comments.

Joefox

 

[Ulf]

What is "rescued "the AIDA way"" and what other ways are there?
/U

 

[joefox]

The AIDA method is quite simple: if the freediver has a problem or doesn't show within a reasonable time, they drop down some 60 Kg and the whole thing (line, freediver etc) is lifted up really fast. No safety scuba involved. It reminds me the method used in No Limits (I think there are at least 3 of them).

The other ways I know of are "hook and forget" (which is similar as concept but involves safety scuba) and the "chain" of scuba divers (one every 10 meters or so).

I don't know if there are other rescue procedures, but the point is: is the AIDA method safe? What happens in case of deep blackout (es after a eardrum trauma, as happened to Ravelo).

 

[joefox]

I forgot an important point on question number 1. What happens if a freediver comes up spitting blood and then blackouts? Would it be a problem to apply BLS procedures to someone with blood in his lungs?

Joefox

 

[Ulf]

Ok, thanks.
/U

 

[AltSaint]

Joefox

1) Either lung squeeze or throat / pharynx sqeeze. I believe this varies more due to individual physiology rather than 'bad technique', from what I have seen.

2) I haven't read any conclusive evidence on this, so can't comment - hopefully someone more informed will be able to.

3) It is more correct to refer to counterweight rescue as that, rather than 'the AIDA way'. Although more and more AIDA events use the counterweight system, not all do. Here in the UK in September, we are hosting an event for individuals to set depth records, which will be judged by AIDA officials. The rescue system will be a combination of SCUBA support and freediver safety support. No counterbalance.

4) It probably won't be down to what we ( the Freediving community ) want, but what our sponsors want answered ( even if that is indirect ).

This list could easily grow. Now that depth disciplines are getting deep enough for DCS to be an issue, what do we do about that ( especially for ratifying records )? What sort of physiological conditions should we screen freedivers for, before they start training / competing ( rather than just using SCUBA medicals )??

This just scratches the surface....

 

[fpernett]

Hi Giorgio,
I think the questions #1 should say: why some freedivers spit blood. Is not a problem to every freediver, in fact, it's not only asociated to deep freediving, it was found to in swimmers and also in race horses. Also we most know where the blood comes, there is many places as sinuses, trachea, bronchi, alveolus where it can come. After a sinus squeeze you can spit blood.
The lung squeeze is not a problem of deep diving it's a problem of pressures, it's possible, at least in theory, to have a pulmonary edema with heavy abdominal contractions (mueller maneuver). And I think there are many factors involved in this.
With the second point, there is no clinical evidence of any damage. I don't think is good to have BO over and over, just mention the clinical evidence. In fact, there is some clinical trials that had show the capability of anaerobic metabolism in the brain, and the old rule of cerebral death after 5 minutes of anoxia had been questioned, because in special situations the cerebral metabolism can shift to anaerobic and avoid the celullar death. I agree with all saints, I'm more concerned with the problems of Decompression sickness, and all the neurological abnormalities found on AMA divers are related with Central Nervous System Embolism. The answer to this two questions require further investigation. And investigation means resources (money). Maybe the Federation can do something useful and sponsor this kind of research.

The third question, only can be studied when it happen. Any rescue procedure is better than no rescue procedure. It will be unethical to make a trial to know what happen.

With what real clinical evidence, should we stop freediving?. I think there are many things far more dangerous, like smoking or airplane travel than freediving, why don't stop all airplanes until we know exactly why they crash?.

I didn't meant to be sarcastic, but this is how I see this.