RA Caranx: 2 x 16mm rubbers or 1 x 20mm? Open or closed muzzle?

[giddyuptiger]

Hey guys,

I've been spearing for a while but this will be my first serious gun purchase. I'm looking at the 1.1 Rob Allen Caranx and have the option to either run 2 16's or 1 20mm rubber. My thoughts were to run just one 16 and keep the other as a spare on the float.

I know it's a 7mm shaft but in oz they're running all RA guns on 7mm and both the sparid and scorpia only running one 16mm so my thoughts are the caranx will work fine with a 16mm. My theory is I'll be doing a bit of rock hopping with less viz and smaller fish (2-3kg) for half the time so the 16mm seems like it would be more apt and then on the occasion when i'm on a boat chasing kingies then i could run both 16's?

The other question I have is open vs closed muzzle, I've read a bit about this on the forum but wouldn't mind some fresh insights.

Thank, this is my first post!

 

[foxfish]

Hi giddy welcome to db, I doubt if a single 16mm band on a 1.1m gun is going to be very effective at all, open or closed muzzle is a personal thing as both work very well.

 

[giddyuptiger]

I doubt if a single 16mm band on a 1.1m gun is going to be very effective at all,

Foxfish I wasn't sure either except both the RA sparid and scorpia run single 16mm bands on 1.1-1.4 guns with a 7mm shaft (although both these guns are listed with a 6.6mm shaft both in Australia have a 7mm installed). Are you thinking that neither of those guns would be effective?

And for someone who's never tried an open shaft what would you suggest?

Thanks for your help.

 

[foxfish]

OK I could redefine my comment & say I cant imagine that the combination you mention would not be very powerful!
I have a 100cm gun that is fitted with an 18mm band & 6.5 spear & that is a pretty much standard Euro configuration.
However if you have friends with your suggested setup then I guesse they must be happy enough with the performance!
Open muzzle gives a better sight line but, some folk find them fiddly to load & it is possible for the spear to fall out until you have wrapped the line in place.
I use both & have no problems using either method however i do prefer the open muzzle for longer range hunting.

 

[giddyuptiger]

Thanks mate, I think going from what you said I should stick with the 20mm rubber. In regards to the open/closed debate it seems like for now I should probably start off with the closed and maybe down the line look at an open muzzle.

 

[hteas]

for what its' worth, RobAllen uses only open muzzles now that he has them. Before that he was cutting down closed muzzles to open them up.
result: he likes them better.

I use either an opened up muzzle similar to photos he sent me, or in the case of my RA 110 with short (140) X 7 mm shaft, a new RA open muzzle. I use it with 2 X 14 mm bands, so I have lots of options. One band for small fish, and 2 bands with plenty of power for pelagics. Your idea of 2 X 16 should provide plenty of power for anything.
The short shaft works well, and is a little lighter handling (less weight out front).

 

[giddyuptiger]

Thanks Hteas, I guess when you look at this page you'll understand my indecision.

https://www.flfreedivers.com/store/...ucts_id=214&osCsid=ejdcfgctsogjuhio15sgdgijs6

:-/

btw, so far this place seems to be the most economical.

 

[foxfish]

2 x 16 sound like the best bet for you, besides 20mm bands are a pig to load LOL

 

[Salehthefish]

Hello and welcome on DB All best

 

[Mr. X]

RA 16mm bands are (I believe from personal experience, rather than any proprietary information) different than normal screw-in rubber bands. They use American bulk rubber which only has a small hole in the middle - I believe euro-bands usually have a considerably larger hole in the middle. Also, the RA closed muzzle (and probably the open muzzle too) takes an extra 10cm of rubber beyond the length of a typical euro screw-in band equivalent. Consequently, they are stiffer and more powerful IMHO.

As Foxfish points out the 20mm bands can be a beast to load, at least they were for me on my 90cm Sparid - although a good, dense loading pad helps considerably and they soften up and become more usable after 2 or 3 years. As you are not a complete beginner, you may be able to judge for yourself what you feel up to.

I've only used a single 16mm and a single 20mm band configuration with the RA 6.6mm spear - but the single 16mm band is plenty powerful enough for that. And if it isn't for your needs (our fish are small but a new forum member in the US shot an impressively large first fish with a single 16mm set-up a year or two ago) - then you can always add the second 16mm band on later.

Open vs. closed muzzle. I guess its a personal preference. Closed muzzles are more traditional and open muzzles seem to be something of a fashion/fad. We read conflicting claims about which is the fastest to load - probably depends on the spear-gun, technique used, how well it is rigged & the spearo concerned. Most seem to prefer looking down the barrel of an open muzzle (esp. if you tend to took down the top rather than along the side, as RA recommends). My latest two spearguns are Omer XXVs; the Omer XXV has a muzzle that allows it to be used in a wide variety of ways, including open or closed (and with or without screw-in/C-loop rubber(s)) . However, I've only used them closed muzzle so far - as that's what I'm used to. I have changed the wishbone of "my main squeeze" to use a screw-on soft dyneema wishbone, which I feel a lot happier using (but which might adversely effect accuracy a little). I'll plan to try an open muzzle configuration when I finally get around to changing the rubbers, and I'll probably switch from 18mm screw-in to a 16mm bulk rubber loop at the same time. Might be a year or 2 off yet though.

 

[giddyuptiger]

OK, so I went down to a store today and had a look at the caranx's and the 110 is definitely my gun. i like the idea of the open muzzle (as i can see the spear down the barrel) but I'm going to stick with the closed simply because it's what I'm used to- crazy but I'm trusting my gut on this.

The gun stocked came with one 16mm rubber- and i'm telling you it's going to be a struggle for me to get the right technique to load that bad boy off my chest (I struggled to get the first half of the action right in the store).

Looking at buying the gun online it comes with one of two options, 1 20mm or 2 16mm's. Now I'm definitely going to be running just the one 16mm but can i buy the double banded gun and easily remove the second rubber for later use (there's no option to buy the gun with a single 16mm rubber)?

On my old gun you screwed on the rubber and from what I could see you can't easily add/remove these rubbers?

Thanks so much for your patience guys, I know I must sound like an idiot.

On a positive note I just bought a Cressi Technica wetsuit. Very excited...

 

[Mr. X]

... Now I'm definitely going to be running just the one 16mm but can i buy the double banded gun and easily remove the second rubber for later use (there's no option to buy the gun with a single 16mm rubber)?...

Yes you can. If it's like mine, then you don't even have to break the lower band, just spin it round and feed the wishbone out the narrow opening. [Moving 16mm bands through the muzzle holes is also much easier with 16mm bands - the 20mm bands are a bit big & often require lubrication & force.]

My Elios wetsuit has a loading pad on the chest - which is fine for a single 16mm rubber. While that helps, for the RA with 20mm band I use a second loading pad - an old flip-flop/thong sole - which I wear on my chest, under the wetsuit. It makes a huge difference. RA sell a "strap-on loading pad" for a reasonable price too.

 

[giddyuptiger]

Thanks Mr. X. I spoke to RA and they say that a 16mm is underpowered for that gun and i should probably go to an 18mm but i think for now i'll stick with the one 16mm version and once i get used to that if i feel like it needs more ompf I'll step it up.

Just purchased a new wettie with a loading pad but if it's not enough, i love the thong idea. I also noticed that new wettie's come with a square of neoprene, i might throw that under the loading pad to start.

:blackeye