RA guns

take your quarter to the phone and...

www.speargun.com

Ask for Jay, Jill or Julie to send you a real gun for a fair price and gaurenteed delivery and performance. End of problem.


sven

Re: take your quarter to the phone and...

Originally posted by icarus pacific
www.speargun.com

Ask for Jay, Jill or Julie to send you a real gun for a fair price and gaurenteed delivery and performance. End of problem.


sven

Click to expand...

But, dude ... they DON"T SELL RA RAILGUNS .... where would they find a real gun ??

yeah. real guns.

Hey, you clowns want to blow 500 scoots for a gun that won't take 2- 20mm bands, fine by me. :hmm

sven

"ding"...RROOOUUNND number TWO !rofl

HHHmmmmmm,

Come to think of it, have you RA users actually try "baby" size Riffe-s. I mean those lightweight ones like Competitor series......and push it to the limit ....perhaps those models no longer than 140 cm. This is a good comparison to RA units....YEP, not price wise.

One thing 4 sure is that you will not be complaining about any trigger assy failure or whatever breakdowns it will encounter under heavy load of rubbers. Just buy it and brutalized it.

Any Riffe won't be as light weight as an RA, even the mini Competitor series, but it is sure robust and stories of even 3 x 20mm ( if the muzzle can fit ) self firing won't ever be heard, this kind of rubber pressure is still too decent for a Riffe's trigger.

I like Riffe but I also like to know more about other guns, this is learning. However, there is one finer detail spearos never took notice.

If a 130 cm RA can shoot say a Tuna of 50kg ( Ok I know the big Marlin stuff ), it seems like a very proud achievement for such a "decent" power speargun. If a Riffe shoot say a 100 kg Tuna, they think.............well it is a Riffe !!! The public somehow embedded the image of Riffe as a mini-canon, yes it is............but not all the models. Many good size fishes been taken by a Riffe Competitor #1 to #3 with 7mm Hawaiian shaft and thin rubbers...... this is the weakest of the Riffe for reef and can be compared to a Euro gun at 100-130 cm. The only different with this Competitor series is that you can load it with plenty of rubbers cause it is well built, so no news of upgrade is worth mentioning. This model is actualy a direct comparison to a 16mm x 2 Euro, but just way over built. The factory basic configuration in rubber power output is +- the same anyway. Spearos always attach the Riffe image to a Blue Water gun and big fish, this is the problem. So achievement by the spearo's small Riffe Competitor with the same power configuration as a common 16mm x 2 Euro is being overlooked, cause the "Riffe" name is already a heavy weight. I think of all, the Steve Alex guns need to carry more "reputation" burden than anything else.


RA on the other hand was designed initialy as a medium fish gun but many people like the accuracy and decent power so they shoot bigger fish.......definitely possible with good skill and good hunting ground. Imagine how fertile SA water is. When a great white sharks likes to hang around, it must be a hot zone.

RA sizes comes in such a long length . Being in South Africa, RA realy get one of the world's most daring spearos..........the South African......who can do magic with small guns to get big gun result. I think RA been pushing itself from medium fish gun to become a rather 'blue water gun" because many good individuals love using RA in South Africa and with good result. So a medium fish gun shooting a big fish sure sounds incredible, but not the opposite.

Anyway RA success is also their weakness, the more spearos taking advantage and assuming the double muzzle design is a mini canon conversion for an RA, the more self-firing they will come across, simply because we spearos don't want to look at a muzzle empty of rubbers or loose fit with small rubbers. Power is greed, and greed demands more power.

I think this is the fault of Jay Riffe because he shot a fish too big for his time, with his own hand made speargun. So Jay Riffe made a mistake that he built a Frankegun engineering and later he used the same quality specification to built mini Riffes, thus spearos do not get excited to hear what a 7mm shaft can do on a Riffe..... what a tough world. While other manufacturer try to create a quality/macho image of their spearguns......... a rare few
manufacturers simply over built their image.

Well, this is my opinion guys, I am probably wrong. I do not own an RA yet anyway but a small guy whacking the hell out of a big guy is news. A "big" guy whacking a big guy is not news.

This is Swiss talking.........a neutral ground..... he he he he.

I am now hiding in a titanium tungsten Cobalt alloy sphere, so you cant flame me boys.....:t :t :t Wha ha ha ha.

IYA

Hehehe
Thats one heck of a limb you just walked out on IYA... Lucky you have that sphery thing proteting you... *grins*
Well IYA to be honest I understand what you mean about people automatically associating big fish with a Riffe.... Or was it the other way round... anyway! I was seriously concidering getting a hold of one however the $$ they are asking even for a basic one around here are way to much... like 800 + and for a por uni student like me... you get the picture!!!
I think that people like to use the RA's because of their Accuracy and ability to handle medium/large fish Verses cash ratio.

Anyhow... I am really hungover and it is going to be another big night onight... so I better cruise

Originally posted by Iyadiver


the world's most daring spearos..........the South African......who can do magic with small guns to get big gun result.

IYA

Click to expand...

OOHHH ! More Iya , MORE !!!
Haven'thad the opportunity to use a Riffe yet , only saw one (small) one . Certainly looked like an impressive tool .
My only misgiving is in the time it takes to load four bands possibly while that once -in -a lifetime monster swims away .

Do the bands have to load in any specific order ? With the tabs at different lengths I would guess so .
Is this a factor Sven ? Surely even the best spearo's get a bit excitable when things start happening all around .

The general rule of thumb is to load the rearmost band to the rearmost tab or notch. That said, if you're really into it and can make your own bands, then yes, the bands can be made to lengths that will offset their positions.

On the time to load factor, if you practice with anything, you're going to get better at it. But these guns, and I'm not talking about a Riffe specifically, will take a bit of time to load; I mean 3 and 4 bands are going to need some time, as will you, to recover from the exertion of stretching them. That said, if you're shooting the gun a lot, you're going to hopefully be hitting the target :hmm and so what if it takes a few minutes to load it? You want to see some big fish, look around as you're stringing your catch.:t But in all fairness, if you are using a gun with 3, 4, and 5 or more bands, you're going to go for a single shot, as the instant the bands release, that fish, it's cousins and the rest of the place knows about it and the place is going to be pretty lonely for much longer than it takes to load back up and take inventory on your miss. Especially those South African types.rofl

sven

here's an idea...

Originally posted by Dogmatrix
[I was seriously concidering getting a hold of one however the $$ they are asking even for a basic one around here are way to much... like 800 + and for a por uni student like me...

Anyhow... I am really hungover and it is going to be another big night onight... so I better cruise [/B]

Click to expand...

Hey, here's an idea... take the money you're going to spend getting pissed and buy a good gun! :hmm freakin kids...

Riffe's are available online from Blue Water Hunter, Pirate Scuba and the likefor pretty sweet discounts over your local shop.
$800 US is going to get you a lot of gun, but $350-400 is going to pretty much handle everything most real people see and want to shoot. Most people see an Island, (my favorite) or a Blue Water and think "Oh yeah! I gotta have one of those!", when in reality a JBL Sawed Off Magnum is plenty good.

And a JBL Sawed Off is a damn good tool.

sven

Amen , brother.
Andrew , it sends a warm glow down to my footfingers to hear another spearo mention hunting @#$% Green Jobfish :thankyou
Man , I love those bastards !What size do you get them in your waters ?We whack them up to about 12 in SA , sometimes bigger in Mocambique . My best is 12.5 kg.

Andrew ,
this works for me :
Dive down quietly and lie on the sand . Ignore any Jobbies you see on the way down .:naughty
Scoop a handfull of sand into the water . If any approach , repeat .If a nice one comes in scoop one more handfull of sand up between you and the fish and line up while behind the sand .One out of ten times the Jobbie will be face to face with you , on the other nine it will be smiling at you still JUST out of range .rofl
I agree there is much more satisfaction in hunting them than mackerel . Sure miss those @#$% fish .

Jobfish, how come my Hawaian video called it a family of deep-water snapper ? Sure don't look like any snapper .I have taken a few of this fish, none bigger than 5kg, big ones don't exist in my usual hunting ground. He he he, sounds like a skill cover-up.
I like this fish cause if I miss ( see, I am honest ) , this is the only fish I seen which tried to bite my shaft...... little fierce bastard....never realy bit but the mouth open up and it got closer to my shaft in an attack mode. I have taken a few with my 95 cm pneu and on scuba tank, me no breath holder ...yet....those days. It is usually out of range but it sure doesn't mind my bubble, as long as my breathing is constant. Now it is a rare sight and I have not been to the blue water side of the hunting ground for so long....been on the green side for the past 12 months or so.

What I learnt today over the weekend might be a good news to RA or Euro gun owners. I tested my 124cm Riffe Standard #2 Mid-Range ( rear handle ) with a Riffe original 7mm Hawaiian shaft today, a pencil piont. I was about to cut the shaft and mod it for my 85cm pneu, so I gave it a last try.........never realy try this shaft anyway. The last try I had was using a Collins Hawaiian shaft from a similiar Collins size rear handle, it has a tri-cut and the shaft is all shiny stainless since new, unlike the Riffe reddish brown when new. The Collins was 10 cm longer. Anyway , I had extreme low shots from the Collins H-shaft. 2 x 14mm band is about the maximum. If I put 3 x 14mm, I must then shoot a super big fish which is swimming verticaly instead of the usual horizontal. So my conclusion is that 7mm shaft is too thin. My spearing life has evolve around 8mm being thinnest so naturaly I go up to 9.5mm instead of going down.

I was blessed with a good 10 mtrs viz on Saturday. So I practice shooting on the pier wooden legs. I set-up my 7mm Rife H-shaft with an original 400 lbs mono, running 2 wraps, so total of 4 meters + the 123 cm shaft.

I used 2 x 14mm at first and the shaft has enough momentum to pull the gun away after exhausting the shooting line. At about 4 meters distance, the shaft trajectory drop about 3-4 cm. The recoil was almost non-existence ( in my opinion ). At 3 x 14mm rubbers, it was very flat shooting and super fast shaft speed with some recoil, the shaft momentum at max shooting line distance was pulling the gun real hard, I bet 3 wraps shooting line is required to maximize distance.

The left/right horizontal accuracy was great. Enough testing and I went to look for Rainbow Runners around my friend's Cobia holding pen. I freedive 4 two hours but no Rainbow Runners, so I took a few good to eat reef fishes, all very small. The accuracy was amazing, some rabbit fish ( a local favourite ) under the exterior net which are too deep for my lousy apnea skill, I shot from the top. I got only shoulder profile and it was about 2 cm wide and I actualy hit it where I aim. Most shots are taken with 2 x 14mm. I took a few 60cm needle shaped kind of garfish type with a crocodile jaw , this one fish has a funny green color bone, decent eating considered by the boat crew.


My conclusion is :

01. I love this Riffe 7mm Hawaiian shaft, better overall than my Riffe 8mm Hawaiian, ( but 8mm has 6 meters of 400 lbs mono )less punch but sweeter to use, better accuracy too. The best part is, same flopper length. I think the fish holding power should be the same, if not better, I mean 7mm does cut smaller wound hole.

02. It was probably a mistake to use the Collins Hawaiian shaft because it was too long for my Riffe #2. See attached photo of the length difference, tip & metal finish.

03. I remembered Sultan Sven talking of shortened Hawaiian shaft for better accuracy if with tons of rubbers. Shortened the typical long overhang of the Riffe. His Riffe Metal Tech 4 can shoot 7mm with 4 x 16mm bands with goo accuracy. This kind of power is just awesome.

My still unanswered question is, will it matter greatly to accuracy if one 7mm shaft is made with better metal and thus stiffer, compared to one made from less stiff metal, I mean in high power situation. If I picked up Alexander info, it sure matters. I am curious if say any Euro gun which honestly can take 20mm x 2 rubbers ( supposedly plenty of rubber pressure ), get a Riffe shaft as replacement....will it improve accuracy at this high rubber loading ?

My other unanswered question is, how much accuracy loss will it do to a thin 7mm Hawaiian shaft ( say based on 4 meters at 3x14mm rubbers ) , if instead of 2wraps/4 meters 400 lbs shooting line, I use 6 meters/3 wraps 400 lbs ? Dragging an extra 2 meters of coiling thick 400 lbs should sound quite a drag to a thin 7mm.

What is your opinion and how much have u guys experiment ?

I think if you guys shoot a 124cm slim teak stock Riffe Competitor #2 and load it with 3 x 14mm bands and the 7mm H-shaft, use 250 lbs mono, do 3 wraps, I am sure it will swing only 15% slower than a comparable sized Euros. I think it is under US$300, same price as high end carbon fiber Omer. Sure one gun to consider which will last you anytime longer than any Euro of any price and need no worry of breaking any parts if overpowered.

IYA

Riffe Competitor #2 - 114cm

Matrix,

Check Cairns Scuba :

CSA3-6023 RIFFE COMP 2 Each $666.60

Add another 12.7mm rubber so you get 3 rubbers = 210 pound of rubber pressure = 95 kg = Overloaded situation on an RA as per Jeremy of RA info.

U get 17-4 stainless steel shaft so actual price of Comp # 2 must be deducted like AU$ 45 upgrade or so cause you don't get that from RA.

U get one of the world best trigger, this one department RA can not do anything about, there is no factory upgrade for owners. So let' say I value this better trigger at AU$ 80 theoretical upgrade. Riffe sells trigger-only like US$ 70 or something.

You get teak stock, this is one expensive barrel material, let say we value that as a AU$ 100 option, since an RA with a stronger carbon fiber barrel is extra money needed....really lots of it, so fair to calculate this way.

It comes with a small hole for breakaway float attachment. Do you need to buy extra from RA if you want to install a breakaway mechanism/hole/attachment ? $$$$$$$

Let say you want to be naughty and load a Comp#2 with 4 x 12.7mm, CAN DO. With an RA, where are you going to put those rubbers ?? He he he.


Ahaaaaa,
Almost apple to apple comparison : a 114cm Comp #2 Riffe actualy cost +- AU$ 441.00. What is the cost of a twin band muzzle basic RA with aluminum barrel , say 110 cm ?

This is how I calculate cost and that is why I think Riffe is not expensive, they just like putting expensive things on it..... he he he


IYA

Arr yes I see your Point... Interesting enough... A mate in PNG gave me his wetsuit!!! Damn that was nice of him... so now I have not to worry about the price of a wetsuit for a bit longer... this means I can afford to throw more $$ at a spear gun... I have made a $1200 capped limit to my expenses in this department... I managed to wrangle a mares Opera face mask... so this means all I need to buy is the Fins and the gun... fins will set me back around $225 for the Cressi 2000LD or around $190 for a set of Immersion Green. So I can now afford to play around with a little more $$... the thing I am considering at the moment is should I go for a heavier Teak weapon... say something approaching a Riffe Blue water or a Riffe Island... Or should I maintain track for a Stealth 1.4 M that has a bit more manouverability... and will still be easier on the budget!!! I currently have an old 90 cm wooden gun... it's similar in desighn to a bazooka... through use of this I can see that a large teak gun though far power superior would also be rather difficult to track with... My target fish are the Mackeral and odd tuna... Ok to be honest next time I am in PNG those dogtooth are in deep $@%#... If I can find em... So tell me your thoughts people... because this gun may also be used for your average reef fish.. so yeah I am basically asking the impossible... but I figure I have around 1 grand Australian to play with on the weapon.

Hope we can get a few good arguments for and against Riffe and RA weapons.
Cheers Rob

PS: by the way that 1 Grand also needs to cover a float and all rigging... I can push it up to 1.2 Grand (Aus) if a good reason is given!

Hi Matrix,

A float or a float line is additional cost. No matter what gun u buy, u will pay the same extra money for this set. Depending on the brand & quality you expect of course.

If you are a new spearo, I sure will not advice you to buy a Riffe Island or the Blue Water, you will miss the learning "curve" as Sven put it. These are magnum cannons and you won't want to take it to the reef cause everything you shoot from 4 meters need to have no corals or rocks behind it for at least 2-4 meters, so our favourite red Coral Trout is not do-able. This I assumed you will be using maximum power on the guns. These guns are accurate for the power they produce but at this power level, accuracy must come with enough practice because recoil factor can not be avoided. You can't expect a 4 x 5/8 bands to be as sweet to shoot as 2 x 16mm, no way young man. Stop thinking of magnum units untill your skill and experience suit the guns.

As for me I went from 95cm pneu to JBL of all sorts and to Riffe #2 Standard and then to Riffe #4 Baja. My friend have a Riffe Blue Water but I am simply not interested, not only it is too long for short me (167cm ), I can't load the gun !!!!!! I have the muscle but length wise I am doomed. Some short Japanese I saw can load their Blue Waters but I am happy with my Riffe #4.
I have 2 Riffe-s because I need 2 different guns for 2 type of hunting locations.

What you need is a versatile gun if you want only one gun. This is the same set-up my friend has ( can't personally comment yet cause he has not use it... ha ha ha ) I adviced Murat the same.
Go for Riffe Metal Tech #3, this gun has great modification potential and the extruded aluminum barrel is almost as strong as the thick teak stock Riffe Island, judging from the amount of rubbers you can load on it. However, since a light gun recoil more than a heavier gun, there are some thing you have to live with....but you pay less....the world just ain't perfect but sure is logical.

If you want to compare any Riffe to an RA, it is quite tough to do so cause they are totaly a different gun. If you want to compare shootability, then you must compare a slim stock Riffe with 7mm shaft cause this is the way an RA is usually set up if with the 2 x 16mm. You can't blindly say that a 160cm RA swing faster than a Riffe Island because power level is different. If Riffe were only limiting 2 x 16mm band on its Island, they need not make the stock that thick. So the concept in different.

One thing manyspearo failed to see is that, why have a long gun if a short gun can have the same shooting range by adding more rubbers. If you give me more time to find a suitable shooting line, I can set my 124cm Standard #2 with 4 x 14mm rubbers to shoot a 7mm Riffe Hawaiian shaft as far as a 160cm RA using 2 x 16mm rubbers on also a 7mm RA Hawaiian shaft. This is my goal...for fun of testing of course. I can load 4 bands on my #2, very fast cause 14mm rubbers on a Riffe #2 with a butt decently long is much easier to load than any Euro gun which is buttless.

However, I will one day buy an RA ( or 2 ) for the fun of owning them, we must learn to appreciate other design concept. I have not experiment enough with my 2 Riffe-s on different shafts diameter, so I still have "toys" to play with. It is so fun to play with different diameter shafts, somehow the gun builds a different character. I just realized after succesfuly trying a 7mm on my #2, why people like Euro guns shooting 7mm shafts.......they are so easy to learn and use, even the swinging of the Riffe #2 becomes remarkably easier than if I use 8mm threaded with Ice Pick. I am never a 7mm believer but I sure love to experiment, this is first hand experience for me and sure fun too.

Also on shooting range, I am a very conservative guy. I use a 6mm plywood as a reference to what kind of penetration I am looking for at maximum distance. Factory shooting range figures are mostly tons of bullshit.....especially the JBL catalog. What kind of fish penetration are manufacturers talking about at the said shooting range...........free shafting and maximum shaft travel only ? Don't they know fish meat do pose penetration resistance ?

I personaly think my Riffe #4 with 4 x 5/8 bands and 3/8 shaft with Ice Pick is a 6mtr gun. If Jay Riffe is next to me, I am sure he will take a 5 kg hammer and knock my head with it :duh, this is simply too conservative....but I like it. At 6 meters with the spec I mentioned, the shaft will penetrate 6mm plywood all the way till the shooting line and stop by a rock behind it. In my estimation I guarantee a complete gill penetration if I do get a chance to pull the trigger on a 50kg Yellowfin Tuna............... here tuna......tuna...come to Papa .

Dive Safe,
IYA

huh?

Waitaminute, Dog. We're having this conversation about pro level guns and you don't even have fins yet??!! :head

No offense and I can empathize with being all jazzed about going fishing but c'mon!

An all purpose gun you might want to look at after you figure out your mask straps and how to kick with some real fins is a hybrid pipe gun like those built by Wong and/or Yakooji, both advertised from HanaPa'a. Less mass in the barrel means easier tracking and they have a better trigger than the RA. Good stuff, especially the Yakooji.

I agree with you Iya, the 4 is a 6meter gun set up right. Farther than that you run the risk of just punching the fish.

sven