reef basics

[FishyHunter]

Lie in the weed edge, wait for 3 minutes, come up!

Breath up move 10 meters along the reef and repeat.

Once bait and fish are located approach slowly or not at all, let them come to you, throw up sand or click. Depending on the species.

 

[blaiz]

Repetitive drops at 3 minutes huh? Thats pretty impressive!

 

[FishyHunter]

My best breath hold is just over 5 minutes , so I don't suggest pushing it each time . Just over 1/2 my best seems to work without feeling hypoxic.

 

[blaiz]

Your saying your best working dive is a 5 minute breath hold? If so your some sort of hero.

When people talk about splitting your max in half for safe limits they are taking max working dive in which one might hit 3+ minutes, and even then we are talking about someone like Dave Mullins or other freaks of nature. I dive 2-3 times a week, and have been doing so for years. I train and warm up and Im lucky if I can hit 3 minutes on a working dive and I wouldn't even think about trying it unless my partner is above me and ready for worst case scenario.

Just because you can hit 5 minutes on a static does not mean 2.5-3 minutes is a safe working dive. A lot of people hit the 5 minute mark the first time they take a course and try statics.

Giving people the impression that a 3 minute breath hold is a prerequisite for diving on the reef does not sound like its coming from someone with a lot of experience. Especially when I can all but guarantee you that 70-80% of spearos who land nice fish probably dont need to be down much more than 1-1.5 minutes, not that they can't hit those times, but I think people get way to caught up on how long they can hold their breath as apposed to their hunting technique.

I have dove in New Zealand and I do know what its like. I thought it would be a cake walk as we are accustomed to longer breathholds here in Hawaii but I was humbled rather quickly. It took a while to figure it out but towards the end i started landing a few nice snapper here and there. And it was not because I increased my breath hold.

I don't mean to rag on you or discourage you from posting I just think you need to be more careful about what you say.

If you want to land quality fish you need to know what you are hunting, how and where to approach them, feeding habits and so forth. The guy who has all that nailed will land twice the fish as the guy who only knows how to hold his breath for a long time....every time. Combine the two and your eating fish for life.

 

[Mullins]

Fishyhunter - if a guy with a 5:00 max static does 3:00 bottom time on a spearfishing dive at any appreciable depth, he blacks out.

Guy Brew holds the NZ static record at 9:03 and is the current world champion in both static and dynamic. I dive with Guy and have never seen him do 3:00 bottom time. His total dive times are occasionally close to 3:00 but more commonly 2:00 - 2:30 in the 20-25m range. In our conditions those are exceptional times.

 

[spaghetti]

Take care, Fishyhunter. In all respect what you say about bottom times sounds amazing but, at the same time, pretty too much dangerous.

Me I would not recommend anyone to perform repeated routines of 3 minutes bottom times while spearfishing on a reef.

PS. I take fish in one minute, or do not take fish. Ok, make it 1'30".

 

[Jonny250]

My last breathhold would be longer than 3minutes. my very last one ever, that is. :0
also it doesnt sound very efficient, from the ratio of down time to surface time, i would think that 1 to 1.5min down and 2min up is much more efficient?


But what about the reef technique, its an interesting subject; For example in our waters, if i do a drop and wait for fish, if wrasse come in then i will immediately move to a differenet direction - on the basis that wrasse and bass wont share the same water. Similarly with small pollack. If the small fish are skittish then there may be a predator about, if not then move on...
Not saying the above is right but thats what i do
Any other 'reefy rules of the spearo'?

 

[jtkwest]

i will chime in on this a little late, if i may
long breath holding is impressive on its own merits,
but seems to have little to do with hunters' ability
to land fish here in florida. i have met diver after diver who have great breath
holds ,(some of them very well known) but at the end of the day, dont produce any fish.
I cant figure out why that is, but it is true.
my theory is : most of the super freedivers i have met, spend huge amounts of time breathing up.
commonly, we will find a rock or something to dive, drop divers up current a little, and these guys will be on the surface doing 5 minute breath ups, i will do a 5 second breath up, dive down,shoot something and boat it, before they have even dropped yet.
sometimes, by the time these guys dive down, we have drifted off the spot anyway.
i can say that for florida reef hunting-30 to 50 ft depth, it is FAR more efficient to do 40 second to 1 minute drops with minimal breath ups. it is not just the ratio of top to bottom time that's important.
just remember freediving is one thing spearfishing is another
to shoot fish it takes multiple skills .
there are some places that require a diver to dive deep and long as a prerequisite (hawaii, for instance) (so i have heard)
but so far i am quite unimpressed with the results of the master divers
i have seen.
its like saying that an olympic sprinter should automatically be able to be the best soccer player .
besides swb is ever present danger
i for one am not doing that buddy diver stuff
its just not realistic.
i have killed tuna wahoo mahi etc. without ever going deeper than 75 ft

 

[spaghetti]

But what about the reef technique, its an interesting subject; For example in our waters, if i do a drop and wait for fish, if wrasse come in then i will immediately move to a differenet direction - on the basis that wrasse and bass wont share the same water. Similarly with small pollack. If the small fish are skittish then there may be a predator about, if not then move on...
Not saying the above is right but thats what i do
Any other 'reefy rules of the spearo'?

There could be a new Encyclopaedia to write about this subject, and don't forget that DB is a world forum: different fish, different bottoms, different hunting cultures....

But since a "reef basics" thread is started, let's see how to fill it with a common effort.

Chapter 1: directions and approach.
Check current and sunlight: they can make the difference (best is, when possible, to have both current and sunligh from your back). Look for places where you see any kind of structure that may "call" the fish: an isolated rock, a "step" in the terrain, a steeple rising up from deep to shallow, a boulder different than the others, schools of bait moving around, a bush of weed in the middle of uncovered terrain, heaps of boulders collapsing to deep, a shelter from the surf, the estuary of a stream, wrecks or dumped junk of any kind, in three words, anything looking special.

Duckdive....(please fill in)

 

[blaiz]

Your movements are very important. I always take the slow, calm, and non threatening approach to my drops. minimal, Slow powerful kicks until I reach my negative point and then its just a still drop. Sometimes a do a bit of a slow pirouette of sorts rofl to get a 360 degree view of what might be coming in.

If you need to move, do so slow and low to the reef. In hawaii most hunting is done lying aspetto or lying still, weather it be in an depression in the reef, under a ledge, out in the sand or anywhere fish might be feeding, resting, or schooling. One the bottom we do small things to attract attention like throwing a few fist fulls of sand into the water column, scratching the bottom, grunting... all depends on what is around. Certain fish like Mu don't like eye contact. Jacks love grunting, uku like scratching...

 

[jtkwest]

shoot something and let it squirm on the spear for a while. see what comes in. if you save the heads from lobsters and put them in a metal chum cage and set it in the sand adjacent to an area of rocks or ledges. leave the area for 15 minutes, then drop in quietly and see what is around.
the big thing with chumming or chunking is to let it work for a while before you get in. 15 minutes minimum is essential. it is better to send some carcasses down, wait a while, then start chunking and let that work for a while .
note (if you are scared of sharks, you may want to skip this style)
i like when the sharks come in
seems like stuff really gets jumping then!
plus cobias love cruising with sharks

 

[jay cluskey]

shoot something and let it squirm on the spear for a while. see what comes in. if you save the heads from lobsters and put them in a metal chum cage and set it in the sand adjacent to an area of rocks or ledges. leave the area for 15 minutes, then drop in quietly and see what is around.
the big thing with chumming or chunking is to let it work for a while before you get in. 15 minutes minimum is essential. it is better to send some carcasses down, wait a while, then start chunking and let that work for a while .
note (if you are scared of sharks, you may want to skip this style)
i like when the sharks come in
seems like stuff really gets jumping then!
plus cobias love cruising with sharks

sounds impressive ... love to see some footage

 

[jtkwest]

sounds impressive ... love to see some footage

the videos wont load on here. i have lots of cool footage! i have tried over and over. it goes through the whole thing for like 10minutes , then it says some sort of error, and thats it. its super annoying and i dont have the computer skills to do anything about it. i have tried to load the baitball videos with us shooting tuna and dolphin, but no go. my friend loaded them into his vimeo account,supposedly i can put a link, but i have no idea how to do that with window7/ google chrome.
on top of that, i cant edit it, so it takes alot more than cool videos to actually SHOW them to anyone is another thing. lol
come over to my house, i will show them to you. lol!

 

[Menny]

There could be a new Encyclopaedia to write about this subject, and don't forget that DB is a world forum: different fish, different bottoms, different hunting cultures....

But since a "reef basics" thread is started, let's see how to fill it with a common effort.

Chapter 1: directions and approach.
Check current and sunlight: they can make the difference (best is, when possible, to have both current and sunligh from your back). Look for places where you see any kind of structure that may "call" the fish: an isolated rock, a "step" in the terrain, a steeple rising up from deep to shallow, a boulder different than the others, schools of bait moving around, a bush of weed in the middle of uncovered terrain, heaps of boulders collapsing to deep, a shelter from the surf, the estuary of a stream, wrecks or dumped junk of any kind, in three words, anything looking special.

Duckdive....(please fill in)

Very interesting Spaghetti! What are the reasons for locating oneself to have both current and sunlight from your back? Is the sunlight dazzling the approaching fish?
I'm diving in the Mediterranean Sea, Israel, mostly catching Spanish mackarels and Amberjacks at a 15-20 m' dept. So my simple technique is lying on the edge of the reef near schools of sardines and wait for the predators to come. If a 1minute past and nobody came, I'll gentley scrub the rock, 1:30 minute pass and no fish came, I ascend.
Todays morning,I was lying on the edge of the reef and notice some nice Dentists ( I hope that's the right name ) spining around but keep a range of at least 6-7 m from me. Having no experience with that fish, I ascent, recovered and dove again. Fortunately, they approch again after 40 sec and spin around but still,keep the range...1:55 minute past I ascent. When they spin around, they give you the illusion that soon they"ll get into your range, they get closer and then back, closer and then back...Has anybody got any experience with them? I tried to raise sand and throw it around but unfortunately, didn't succeed to convince them...Any advices? Thanks in advance,Menny.

 

[jtkwest]

chum,
use chum.
the med has few sharks left right?
in that case, get a small chum cage,(you could make one)
put it on the bottom ,(or hang it on a float)
either way, put it where the fish are in the water collumn.
let them feed for a while and get stupid.
then start picking them off.
some fish like "live chumming"
thats where you shoot something unwanted and let it struggle for a while to bring in fish

 

[Menny]

chum,
use chum.
the med has few sharks left right?
in that case, get a small chum cage,(you could make one)
put it on the bottom ,(or hang it on a float)
either way, put it where the fish are in the water collumn.
let them feed for a while and get stupid.
then start picking them off.
some fish like "live chumming"
thats where you shoot something unwanted and let it struggle for a while to bring in fish

Thanks jtkwest,
We have sharks near the shore at winter months. I've seen them in 7-8 meters dept, never more then that. So it's not a problem.
What do you usually use for the chum? I've never tried it.

 

[jtkwest]

here in the u.s. i just go to the bait shop (fishing tackle store)
and buy blocks of pre made chum. it is a mixture of very oily fish guts and discarded carcasses of fish, that is ground to a fine pulp and frozen into blocks.
fisherman use it by putting the frozen blocks into a small metal "cage"
that they will hang off the back of the boat, while fishing.
as the frozen block thaws out, it releases the tiny fish chunks and oil and blood which attract fish.
i dont have any experience with dentex (not dentist) (IF that's what they actually are), but most fish will react to chum.
as far as putting it on the bottom , i cant say for sure, some fish like the cage hanging off a float in the midwater somewhere. if there is no current , you can try this. also, if you go to an area that has a fishing fleet, or better yet a fish house (processing facility) go there and ask for fish carcasses. take all you can carry and put that stuff on the bottom right where you saw them schooling up .
leave and wait about 20 or 30 minutes, then quietly and slowly creep up on the spot. if you put it in the right place, with a little luck, you will have a bunch of your target fish hanging around , trying to get in on the free food

if you want specific info on dentex, you need to discuss that with guys from the med. since i have never seen one. but chumming is pretty much universal, all fish eat other fish (most do) unless your area is very sharky,(like the bahamas) , or you have great whites cruising the area, you may want to skip this method. but as far as i know,the med. is pretty fished out of sharks,a few small one can be good for spearfishing anyway.
give it a try, i will almost guarantee results.

 

[Menny]

Great! Thanks jtkwest! Will try it and let you know.
If someone have any other technique with Dentax I'll be glad to share it.

 

[burjegol]

Well, the Med I think still has some resident great whites. They called it here "kelb bahar"


Anyway, first note the actions of the fish. Are they just going round and round or hunting? if they just sort of a stroll, well it's difficult to get near them as they tend to shy away. But if they are hunting, their swim actions differs. the movement is sort of aggressive in a way that they turn sharply one way or another. In this case, just lie down on the bottom, much better if you are partly hidden and sooner or later one will come near you to investigate. the ideal is you will be on top of a ledge, they are on the bottom. they will swim up to have a look on you and that's the time you FIRE!
have bagged this fish the same technique time and again.
Some times, you'll just be surprised that a big amberjack passes over you going after mullets and rabbitfishes. And if they do, they are going at mach one. :duh

PS. I am also spearfishing in the Med, though in the gulf of sidra.

 

[Menny]

Well, the Med I think still has some resident great whites. They called it here "kelb bahar"


Anyway, first note the actions of the fish. Are they just going round and round or hunting? if they just sort of a stroll, well it's difficult to get near them as they tend to shy away. But if they are hunting, their swim actions differs. the movement is sort of aggressive in a way that they turn sharply one way or another. In this case, just lie down on the bottom, much better if you are partly hidden and sooner or later one will come near you to investigate. the ideal is you will be on top of a ledge, they are on the bottom. they will swim up to have a look on you and that's the time you FIRE!
have bagged this fish the same technique time and again.
Some times, you'll just be surprised that a big amberjack passes over you going after mullets and rabbitfishes. And if they do, they are going at mach one. :duh

PS. I am also spearfishing in the Med, though in the gulf of sidra.

The problem is that the specific reef I've seen those Dentax in, is to flat so it's quite dificult to hideaway. They were not hunting... It seems they're very curious about me. The came close and then went back, came close and went back, like they were not sure that was a good idea to come to close Someone told me to rise a sand and just throw it away while ambushing. He said Dentax become very curious about that, I didn't tried it yet though... Do you have Dentax there in Sidra?