Regular samba pattern during dynamic

[andy r]

Hi Folks,

As I'm having regular sambas as part of my new pool dynamic session I was wondering if someone (EF please help) could shed some light on the situation.

Session

(full lungs) - Part A
10 x 25m dynamics on 20secs rests (1min rest at end of set)
5 x 50m dynamic on 2mins (approx 1minute efforts 1min rest)
1 x 30sec static and 50m dynamic (2min rest)
1 x 45sec static and 50m dynamic (2:30 rest)
1 x 60sec static and 50m dynamic (2min rest)

(EMPTY lungs) - Part B
10 x 25m dynamic (45sec rest between each)

The sambas are mild to medium(subjective I know) and occur for atleast the last 5 of the empty lung efforts. (medium to me is significant shudders but not requiring my buddy to help me) I do 2 hook breathes on surfacing after each empty lung effort and the sambas usually occur about 5 secs after these. (no hook breath and they occur about 5-10secs after surfacing.

My questions are:
1. What about this session is the likely cause?
2. Am I training near the limit and likely to therefore be improving or am I taxing my body and potentially going backwards?

Thanks in advance for any educated comment I can get on this.

regards

shake shake shake - Andy

 

[Alun]

5 sambas in a training session?!... "don't try this at home kids!"
i think the best advice is not to have any, and if you do have one, then you should probably quit diving for the day, because it's generally believed that you will be more susceptible to another over the short term.... as you seem to have discovered!
in answer to your questions, here is my input:

1. swimming too far underwater is always the reason. if you're constantly having sambas then you're pushing yourself too hard. you must either shorten the distance or increase the rest period, or both. simple as that.
my suggestion:
stick with Part A if it feels good
for Part B, stick with 25m... so you can complete a full length (for convenience), but increase your rest period, initially to say 2mins, then gradually lower it until each dive becomes difficult.

2. near the limit? you've gone way past the limit!
i think your progress would be faster and seem easier if you didn't push quite so hard.

 

[derelictp]

Hello!

You get less warning signs from CO2 when you do emty lung diving and you can reach hypoxic states very fast. Much of the O2 store is limited to the blood and the tissues and the hypoxia comes very sudden and you can blackout even without warning signs.

It's very very important to have a buddy watching all the time when doing this but you seems to have that.

I agree with Alun about the rest.

 

[Walrus]

You get hypoxic very quick doing empty lung dynamics. Doing 25m with 45 rests is quite short. Doing 25m would get you lower on O2 then a 50m with full lungs.

You are having samba's because you are not having a long enough rest, or doing too great a distance on empty lungs. Try increasing the rests to 60 seconds, think you will find you won't have any at all then. I have found doing sets like these that decreasing the rest by only 10 seconds make it a lot harder.

I do not believe that after having a samba you are more likely to have one again. Many times I have done a series of dry empty lung statics, often right up to the edge of samba, sometimes end up having a little one. My times certainly do not get shorter after a samba ?!
In fact I find a breathold right after a small samba will be very easy, and sometimes get another 5-10 seconds longer then the previous time, clean !


Cheers,
Wal

 

[andy r]

Thanks guys for the comments. I've increased the rest period and it seems to be much more manageable ....not to mention easier. Hopefully I'm getting the same or more benefit as a result.....hard to tell

Andy

 

[samdive]

regular sambas?

I quite intrigued by your attitude Andy and wonder if I am alone.
Does ANYONE else out there accept "regular samba patterns" as part of normal freediving?
yeah we all push ourselves too far and if we are unlucky might have the odd samba, but this in my experience is a bit of a minor disaster, to be assessed, shredded, woken up in the middle of the night about and prevented from happening again. I have had more sambas than anyone I dive with and I think I could count mine on one hand...
Seems really odd to me that anyone should accept any "samba pattern" as OK. If you are samba-ing that regularly you need to do something MAJOR to sort it out...
incidentally are you the same Andy who was having regular sambas in Dolphin the other weekend?
PLEASE PLEASE BE CAREFUL! freediving is great but its not worth that kind of cruelty and risk to yourself..

Sam

 

[andy r]

Sam,

FROM YOUR POST
"I quite intrigued by your attitude Andy and wonder if I am alone.
Does ANYONE else out there accept "regular samba patterns" as part of normal freediving? "

You are not intrigued about my attitude at all or you would have asked me some questions. Actually you are judging my attitude and asking others to back you up.....good for you if that makes you feel important!

To be fair to me if you read the post again you will see that I have modified my program based on the CONSTRUCTIVE feedback from Alun, Peter and Wal. To suggest that I accept sambas as a normal part of freediving is nonsense. If I did I would not have placed the original post or modified my program based on the feedback I received.

If your intent was actually to help me then I appreciate it and thank you for it, you may want to think about how you word things next time.

I was hoping that Eric might respond to this thread as he might have a different slant on things

BTW - no it wasn't me at dolphin last week, I'm on the otherside of the world ....so don't go judging me unfairly for that either.

I don't think that BO or Samba should be taken lightley but lets not go getting all religious just because they get mentioned.

Any further constructive/educated responses would be much appreciated (from you too Sam)

regards

Andy

 

[Polorutz]

Same thing man... improve gradually with less strain... Sambas = going over the limit... stay under it and you'll see you will improve... if you push too hard it will eventually catch up and one of those sambas will turn into a BO

 

[naiad]

My questions are:
1. What about this session is the likely cause?
2. Am I training near the limit and likely to therefore be improving or am I taxing my body and potentially going backwards?

I find that I only last a very short time with empty lungs if I move around. It would be better to increase the rest period, and remember that with empty lungs you have a lot less O2 than with full lungs. Different people are also different, and what works for one person may not work for another. If I did 25m with empty lungs a few times I would BO!

Maybe it would be worth trying a different training program...

Lucia

 

[Haydn]

Hi Andy,

Redefine your style of training. Dynamic apnea is not like sprinting where you train to maximum effort, or like gym work where you might work the heaviest weights. You appear to be training dynamic to its toughest efforts. Try to let go. Try to allow the last 5 meters of a 50m to be as peaceful as the first 5 meters. This will mean having more rest (even 3 minutes per 50m). Quickly you will find you are ready to go early and within the rest period. After maybe 10 x 30 minute sessions you will be doing 50s every 2 mins. You will then notice how the peaceful stage morphs into a slight struggle towards the end. Get comfortable with this transition, train it for weeks, do not think its better to start on 75s, because you will turn the last 25m into full on struggle and have more sambas. If you maintain your current style of training, all your dynamics will be full of effort and you will not progress so easily. I would do just 10x50s apnea. And use the rest of the session with the snorkel and swim the miles with the fins, build up strength and aerobic capacity.

 

[Adrian]

I'm moving this thread to the safety forum as I think it's very relevant there.

On thing I am wondering about, is if through enough repetition, one can inadvertently train the body to have sambas once a certain level of hypoxia is present, when under more rest-oriented training this wouldn't happen having reached the same level of hypoxia. Sorry, I was always accused in school for having run-on sentences! And by the way Andy, Sam wasn't coming down on you, she was just concerned.

Adrian

 

[samdive]

BTW no one seems to have noticed, this is a really ancient thread - Andy asked those questions about 2 years ago - he's probably worked it out or given up by now!

S

 

[Adrian]

Goes to show how much attention I'm paying today! rofl Thanks Sam!

 

[naiad]

I hadn't noticed either! rofl

 

[Erman]

Andy (after two years if u r still around), or who ever is reading,

I would like to understand what is the following ?

1 x 30sec static and 50m dynamic (2min rest) ; is it that a 30 sec static and without re-breathinbg start a 50 m dynamic ?

Well, I am not an expert, just a newbie. But, if one is having regular samba's, something is wrong.

Erman

Hi Folks,

As I'm having regular sambas as part of my new pool dynamic session I was wondering if someone (EF please help) could shed some light on the situation.

Session

(full lungs) - Part A
10 x 25m dynamics on 20secs rests (1min rest at end of set)
5 x 50m dynamic on 2mins (approx 1minute efforts 1min rest)
1 x 30sec static and 50m dynamic (2min rest)
1 x 45sec static and 50m dynamic (2:30 rest)
1 x 60sec static and 50m dynamic (2min rest)

(EMPTY lungs) - Part B
10 x 25m dynamic (45sec rest between each)

The sambas are mild to medium(subjective I know) and occur for atleast the last 5 of the empty lung efforts. (medium to me is significant shudders but not requiring my buddy to help me) I do 2 hook breathes on surfacing after each empty lung effort and the sambas usually occur about 5 secs after these. (no hook breath and they occur about 5-10secs after surfacing.

My questions are:
1. What about this session is the likely cause?
2. Am I training near the limit and likely to therefore be improving or am I taxing my body and potentially going backwards?

Thanks in advance for any educated comment I can get on this.

regards

shake shake shake - Andy

 

[Polorutz]

I would like to understand what is the following ?

1 x 30sec static and 50m dynamic (2min rest) ; is it that a 30 sec static and without re-breathinbg start a 50 m dynamic ?

Those excersices are known as "Stop & go" and essentially yes, it's a 30 sec static followed by a 50 meter dynamic without breathing after the static, It's perfectly safe if you do it with a buddy just in case and if you give enough time for recovery.

 

[Erman]

Hi Polorutz,

Thanx for your response. I will give it a try with 25 m dynamics, i don't think that my current level is good enough for 50 dynamics with Stop & go type addition

Erman

 

[Polorutz]

Always try with a buddy... never alone

 

[ADR]

Hi Guys,

Andy R was actually me in a previous life (2yrs ago) but I forgot my password in my early days on DB so created a new ID....

Polorutz - "1 x 30sec static and 50m dynamic (2min rest)" yep that is static and then swim (allows the dive response to establish prior to exercise)

....funny that this thread resurfaced

Andy