Replacing a Wishbone nicely illustrated

[SurfnSpear]

An up and coming manufacturer (Shane Breedt) has a nice simple explanation for any beginners out there wanting to know..
http://www.freedivers.co.za/diy.html
There are some nice pics too of the fish shot around Durban etc....

Regards

 

[OregonSpearo]

Yep, that's the clove hitch knot. You can see it animated here:
http://www.animatedknots.com/cloveboating/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg

 

[dave]

personally, I would say that is not the best knot for the job, a constrictor knot is easier to get tight and less likely to slip
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk

 

[Mr. X]

Yep, that's the clove hitch knot.[/url]

Yes, that is a clove-hitch :hmm...although I think a similar but slightly different knot is usually used for tying wishbones... a constrictor knot -- at least that is the one I will be using:
http://www.ropeworks.biz/archive/constri.html
http://www.realknots.com/knots/constric.htm#Xconstrictor

Bottom of:
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/boaconstrictor.html
http://www.realknots.com/knots/hitches.htm

Although I disagree with their comment (on the Clove Hitch):
"This is a very important knot of only theoretical value. Without extra support, it is untrustworthy in any situation, except as a crossing knot. You have to learn it for scouting and at sailing schools. If you have to use it, work it up properly; pull length-wise only at both ends before you load the working end. It is better to use The Rolling Hitch instead. "

or the previously mentioned site (its good)http://www.animatedknots.com/cloveboating/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg:

"Uses: The Clove Hitch (ABOK # 1245, p 224) is included here primarily to condemn it. Its only advantage is being pleasingly easy to tie. However, it has two major failings: it slips and, paradoxically, can also bind. "

...The clove-hitch is one of the most commonly used knots that I have seen. Scouts use them for finishing lashings, climbers use them to tie-into karabiners at belay stances (they are quickly tied, readily adjusted - to distribute load - & somewhat shock absorbing, heaven forbid; popular in Yosemite & the Alps). However, it would not be my first choice of knot for tying wishbones. Clove hitches are usually used to take tension in-line (which tightens the knot), because they are easy to loosen and untie (release the tension & push the ends in) and quick to tie. Lack of inline tension & easy to untie would be my concerns in this application. That said, I see some spearos melt the knot when cutting the ends -- presumably to "glue" the knot(?), in which case it hardly matters what knot you use!

http://www.animatedknots.com/constrictor/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg#
Says (re. Constrictor):
"Uses: The Constrictor Knot (ABOK # 1188, p 216.) deserves to be much more widely known and used. It is an excellent quick temporary whipping for a fraying rope's end. It securely ties the neck of a sack or bag, and I have often used it to hold items together for gluing.

Virtues: Its great virtues are that it can be tied quickly and it binds so that it can be almost impossible to untie. The only place it fails is when tied against a flat surface - it requires a curved surface so that the binding turn can grip the half hitch. "

 

[SurfnSpear]

melt the knot when cutting the ends - presumably to "glue" the knot(?), in which case it hardly matters what knot you use!

....and it's great debating the merits of everyone's choice...I tend go with this finale and 'knot' had a problem with my gun back home in the sun yet. Good enough for Len Jones....however I'll lay money there was a constrictor in the bag too!rofl

Regards

 

[Alison]

With the constrictor knot (just a clove hitch with an extra loop) its usefull to use a couple of securing knots to prevent inadvertant loosening,it can happen I use one of those crossover knots you use when you start to tie your laces but with 4 crossovers. Not come undone yet

 

[Mr. X]

With the constrictor knot (just a clove hitch with an extra loop) its usefull to use a couple of securing knots to prevent inadvertant loosening,it can happen I use one of those crossover knots you use when you start to tie your laces but with 4 crossovers. Not come undone yet

Do you mean a thumb knot? If you do several I suppose you would have a reef (square) knot or granny knot...+ extra thumb knots/granny knots/reef knots. I used to tie parcels like that. Granny knots aren't much good, reef knots are better but can loosen (main reason for using them) and, my main problem with them, they are hard to keep tight during tieing. ("Place one finger on the knot..."). The compressed rubber probably helps keep the knot under ternsion.

I tied some constrictors last night -- the method shown on the animated site is subtle but is the easiest method I have seen. Constrictors seem ideal for this use: tighten very easily and very hard to loosen or undo once tightened (I thought I would have to cut the chord off the chair I was using!). I have tried tying them as a modified clove hitch but was never successful -- it is quite tricky/awkward. The method mentioned above though is very quick & simple once learnt -- like tying a clove-hitch using the fast Mickey Mouseears short-cut approach.

 

[Alison]

Ive taken a picture of what I mean, no idea what its called and Im crap at trying to explain
First one is the constrictor knot (in nylon for clarity ) then the second one is the securing knot, I usually tie two or three of these either side of the band, it really keeps the constrictor knot safe; you can put a blob of nail varnish on the very last one just to be sure but try to keep it off the rest of the line Once tied I taper off the end of the band with scissors.

 

[dave]

That's not a constrictor knot, this is! As tied at the Rob Allen factory. No need for any securing knots etc, melting the ends only needs to be done for neatness
It is an incredibly useful knot, as well as using it to tie several hundred wishbones, I have also used it in place of a hose clamp to hold the cooling system of my car together!
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk

 

[Alison]

Oh right I got my info from a video from another site (typical!! rofl) so thats just a clove hitch with the tails crossed, easy will try that next time

 

[Marwan]

i tried the constrictor knot, my problem is with pulling with the pliers, im not a weak person by normal standards, i must be doing something wrong.

 

[dave]

I find the best way to tighten it is to make a loop in one end and put it around your foot or other fixed objecy, then pull on the other end and rotate the rubber in both directions, as this rolls the knot tighter
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk

 

[Alison]

How tight does the knot actually need to be? I used 2 pairs of pliers to tighten mine and Im not exactly Arnie but they have held fine, nearly every day since the end of June.

 

[Mr. X]

i tried the constrictor knot, my problem is with pulling with the pliers, im not a weak person by normal standards, i must be doing something wrong.

I 've heard of people using a bench vice. I suppose tying one end to something fixed and strong (tow hitch?) and the other end to a good pulling handle (broom stick?) would probably work!

 

[Mr. X]

...so thats just a clove hitch with the tails crossed, easy will try that next time

Sort of -- one end is threaded through the loop of the other. (Just managed to tie it from Daves picture -- previous attempts starting from a clove hitch were less successful! ).

 

[dave]

How tight it needs to be depends on the rubbers. with as long 14mm band, it doesn't need to be very tight, but a short 20mm is a different matter. Twisting the rubber whilst tensioning the knot is the trick that makes all the difference, gets it far tighter than brute force
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk

 

[OregonSpearo]

What is the diameter of the balls you insert in the rubber to make wishbones?

 

[Alison]

I bought some 8mm shot fishing weights (lead replacement type) but 10mm would be OK better even maybe

 

[rifmaniac]

I'd also say the best not is the simple constrictor not.
I sometimes make another constrictor not over it, to prevent the first from opening.
I just would add that it's an idea to protect the rubber while tying the not? I already burst a 16mm not by pulling too hard. I protect the rubber by putting tape under the not (isolating tape used by electricians)