rubbish at depth - any tips/help please?

[John P]

Hi, I've been freediving for several years. I did a AIDA 3star 2 or 3 years ago.

My PB CWT dive is 32 metres last year in Croatia.

Whilst my dynamic is going ok (can do 67 metres) and I managed a 3 min static the other day (first static I have done in a year or two) I seem to be struggling to dive much beyond 20 metres (even struggling to get to 20 sometimes).

I believe the problem is in my head. I am fitter than ever and have done a fair bit of training lately (in water 2-3 times per week, depth once or twice a week) for the last two months.

Last weekend I was diving with Saltfree in Chepstow and was diving to around 23-24 metres. After a good dynamic session on tuesday I then expected to dive well on thursday in Doshill quarry (only 20m deep!). To my suprise I bailed at around 15 metres on my first and second dives. I felt 'compressed' and didn't want to continue so turned early. I was still equalising fine and wasn't low on air/o2. My third dive was much better - I had a nice long glide and felt much more relaxed. I hit the bottom had a nice relaxed look around and a good swim back to the surface. I decided to quit while I was ahead and did some no-fins diving after that, mainly because I had done a really nice dive and didn't want to spoil it if the next dives were harder again.

I think the problem is in my head (at least partly). When I find diving harder than I expect and fail to reach 20m it frustrates me and probably puts me under stress to do better. I do sometimes feel a bit of anxiety whilst diving to depth - like I feel deeper than I really am. I get strong contractions quite early that doesn't help.

I get very cold, even with a 5mm Elios suite in 19 degree water! I find myself shivering on breathups and that puts me off too. I don't have a cold and don't know why I get so cold - I used to snorkel in th UK with a 3/5mm shorty. My suit is 3 years old and is a bit creased around the neck/shoulders - I don't know how much difference this makes.


Sorry for the length of my post, I wanted to put as much detail as I could - any advice would be appreciated

I'm wondering if hypnotherapy would help?

Other than that I will just keep practicing, maybe do more statics to get more comfy with the breath hold.

I'm trying to concentrate on enjoying the dives rather than reaching a depth. I like dives to be relaxed rather than hard work. But it is a bit frustrating to make next to no progress in 3 years of training (3 yrs ago I was diving to 25m with no problems). I do stop diving to depth during winter though as I get so cold.

Thanks,
John.

 

[ReefTroll]

I am by far not an expert (maybe the least of all on here!!) But it seems as though you have a mental barrier with the depths in comparison to the overall depth?
Like the shallower the water the shallower you say you dive? So is it not so much your depth but your thoughts of the bottom and reaching it? I guess taking your mind off it somehow will help yes, how to do that, I don't know, maybe concentrate on another part of your dive and try and "perfect it" by totally throwing all thought onto the chosen action, and let your dive take care of itself?

 

[roadrunnerdk]

I dont think it is unusually to have the best dive after a couple of warmup dives i would have taken at least one more instead of stopping after the third dive.
i did a freediving course this winter in thailand they practiced exhale dives as warm up for the deep dives and it seemed to work for me
how did you dive, was it free imersion or did you swim down with fins
if the water is much colder and/or darker it can affect your performance compaired to somewhere warm vith clear water

good luck with the diving

 

[sgnips]

the first thing coming in my mind is that no one dive is the same to another, so you can't expect to dive 32+m each time you get in the water

When I find diving harder than I expect and fail to reach 20m it frustrates me and probably puts me under stress to do better

why frustrating? are you attempting a world record?
try to enjoy each dive, pay attention to what happens to you body, how you feel compressed, how compression changes, how equalizing goes and how it feels as depth changes
when numbers don't come, being static, dyn, or depth, it's time to stop a while and have some fun

visualization excercises might also be of great help, both before the dive and at home

enjoy!!

 

[John P]

Hello, thanks for the advice...

I seem to have got through my barrier for the moment. I did the Triple Depth Competition in Egypt and have spent the last couple of weeks there diving.

I think the warm water made a big difference, in training I have been able to do PB dives of 36m CWT, 22m CNF & 32m FIM. I also managed a static of 3m37 that is close to my PB.

So it seems to have been going really well...I'll go back to a freezing cold UK quarry soon and see how that goes!

 

[Simos]

Hey John - I'm in no position to give you any advice regarding depth but looks like you're over the mental barrier already ;-)

I dive in the uk too and used to get quite cold too (with a 5mm elios suit) - I did notice that whenever I was cold depth (even 12-13m) used to make me feel compressed too and a bit uncomfortable. Lungs do get stiffer when cold etc so I guess it's not surprising. Apart from making some slight adjustments to the suit the main thing I noticed about being cold was nutrition. I used to not eat much at all before freediving because I thought it would make me too full but since I started having a proper breakfast and keeping those calories coming in with snacks etc I noticed I hardly get cold anymore. That might help a bit?

I also call it a day or just stick to shallow dives when I start getting cold - I think it's safer but I find it helps me not condition myself to thinking that depth = cold & uncomfortable
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[petej]

It sounds like a new warmer wetsuit would help a lot. I also dive in very cold water and when I started out using a 7mm scuba suit I would shiver the whole time I was in the water. I got a 7mm esclapaz freedive suit and the difference was absolutely amazing. Nothing has helped my diving more than the suit. Being comfortable and warm is worth twice what a new suit costs in my opinion. I think it would help a lot, especially since you did well in egypt where you were warmer.

 

[Simos]

Scuba suit?? Brrrrrr
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[apneaboy]

John don't get a thicker suit

Give me a ring, ill PM my phone number

Speak soon
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[Simos]

Just get a made to measure 5mm elios suit
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[John P]

My suit is a made to measure 5mm Elios!

It is about 3-4 yrs old though but still fits well. It also has a lining on the outside (still open cell inside).

I think Elios do open cell shorts and a vest that could be warn under a 5mm suit, might be a good option?

 

[Simos]

Do let me know if the vest works - went diving today and it was awesome but cold doesn't help that I always like putting on my suit in the lake!

Do your gloves and booties have 'seals' by the way? (open cell neoprene strips when you fold them over). I have rubbish gloves that don't seal and they actually 'pump' cold water up my sleeves and through the suit...

An open cell vest might not be a bad idea for the cold months....
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[Phil C]

Hi,

I use an elios 2mm smoothskin jerkin under my 3mm or (in the depths of winter) 5mm elios smoothskin. The 3mm + 2mm is definately warmer than the 5mm alone, particularily if you find that your jacket flushes during armstrokes/turns at the bottom plate.

The other piece of kit I swear by for cold water diving is the elios 3 fingered smoothskin gloves. They rock!

(but don't go cray diving in them)

Phil C

 

[KatFish]

Sounds to me like your depth results are quite good in comparison to your static and dynamic.

You might want to get back to basics a little. Work on your static, figure out why you have to breathe, how to relax, how to deal with the urge to breathe, how to hold on longer and bring that knowledge into your dynamic. At the same time focus on your technique, work on every little detail that will help the dives become more natural - one thing at a time until you can practically do them in your sleep. Then once you are improving, start diving deeper. There aren't many divers doing 50% of their dynamic in depth.

Have patience. Everything in this sport is about patience, from the time it takes for the body to adapt right down to the dives themselves.

 

[Arjen]

I have to agree with KatFish.

I’ve had a huge problem with depth. I had developed a very good mental block, because I had certain expectations and could not place them in perspective. Instead of taking me deeper, every dive I took became harder, tenser and took me farther away from my PB of 35meters. In the end, even a 20 meter dive was a hard thing to do, while I have a breath hold of over 6 minutes and a can do an easy 100 DYN. It took me over a year and a very good NLP session (Neuro Linguistic Programming) to get over it. When I had found the right switch in my head, I improved from a hard 20 meter dive to a relaxed 30 meter dive within one session. I sadly had to go home, so I have not found out where my regained relaxation will take me in depth, but it already had an impact on my dry training (I can’t train in the water at the moment). I can take the relaxation I found in the deep diving straight into my static breath holds and dry apnea walks. And I know I can take it to depth when I have the time to do that again. The other thing I had not realized until I had lost it was that the mental block took away a lot of the joy I had in diving. The dives I did since were so immensely satisfying and fun it is indescribable.

So focus on general relaxation, technique and breath hold capability. And learn how to take those three things into any attempt and training you do, no matter how short or long you are training. Just don’t start worrying about it, because it can affect all your other disciplines. And this will sound like Captain Obvious, but if a dive or breath hold doesn’t go as you want, analyze it and try to learn from it instead of seeing it as a failure. It took me over a year and someone else saying it to me in my face before I could finally get that through my thick scull.

 

[Phil C]

My suggestion would be, once you get back in the water, try another angle. Diving only to a comfortable depth do some no-fins, some free immersion, experiment with FRC dives, learn to mouthfill, become a really good safety diver. Basically leave your block alone for a while while you have some fun learning new stuff, then go back to it gradually without too many goals. My 2C.

 

[Kars]

All very good points here by various people, here are mine:

From the initial story I feel that comfort and relaxation are the challenges.
Cold seems to be the biggest factor now, but soon I suspect it will be sheer apnea 'static' relaxation and other abilities that need refinement.

Cold:

3mm vest - Like suggested, get an additional 3mm sleeveless shirt for under the 5mm Elios. It wont increase buoyancy but will retain the heat much better.

Wear silicon headcap under your hood. - The head is where you loose 30% of the body heat, a silicon swim cap will make a good difference.

Food. Eat some warm brown pasta a 30min before diving, this will help you to warm up. Hot herbal tea is also very nice. Rice is also possible, give longer warmth, but also a bit less.

Take a hot shower after getting up.

Be rested, enough sleep?

Do muscle warm up on land, make sure you wear extra warm clothing to keep yourself extra warm all the time up to getting into the water.

In water you can warm up by tensioning and releasing the big muscle groups, to get the blood flowing too.

Enter the water slowly, preventing needless heat loss.

Remember because you get cold, that it's likely your best (deepest) dives are early in the session.


Relaxation:

Ok, rethink about your goals.
Your mind should be in the now. Do not judge of how far, long, deep you are.
To do this I mostly dive eyes closed and move slow. I breath slow, duck dive slow, swim slow, and let myself fall soon and... slow. During the decent I focus on relaxation and equalisation. When you detect some tension, break, stop, and try to relax that part, when it works you can proceed the dive. When you face tension you may also want swing around gently and hang and relax eyes closed on the line for say 10 heartbeats. I call this "learning the depth", in other words you command your body to relax and become comfortable and used to the given depth. Surrender to the pressures of the depth is the only way to dive deeper.
Now if you feel you've got a to big of a focus on numbers, dive without dive computer.
It will help to refocus your mind on relaxation and your inner body.

Returning to goals, I think you may want to have a main goal (greater depths) and goalposts such as enhancing your equalisation, relaxation, swim technique, static, CO2 tolerance, being warm.

Plan your dive sessions to refine and reach the set goal post (sub goals) to the next level. Also identify afterwards what went good and what needs more work. Try to improve as much goals outside of quarry, saving the precious quarry time for the things you cannot improve elsewhere.

Remember that overcoming this hurdle will give you great satisfaction, understanding yourself better too.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[Mullins]

Sometimes you just have to make yourself go deeper, even if it feels hard. Turning around is a choice, after all -it's not like the cold and the dark turn you around and shove you back towards the surface. So choose to keep going instead.