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Salvimar Hero/Metal trigger experience

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Sorcerer

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2014
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Hey guys,

I need some more insight on your Salvimar hero/metal triggers and experience using them under loads.

Ive gotten the gun quite recently and its been a love hate relationship so far to the point I simply don't trust the trigger.

First thing first:
- the locking/safety mechanism was very hard to lock/unlock OUT of the box. Impossible to do with 1 finger. Currently I need to use shaft butt to press it.
Yes - I DONT use lock/safety ever as precaution but I find it unreasonable.
An unlocked safety was also blocking the trigger from the box, weird?

- the standard bands are 16mm 325%, for a wahoo its a bit underpowered so I replaced them with cressi small ID 14mm at 350-360% and here starts the hate relationship - the trigger become quite hard to the point that I literally dont know when it will go off and on top of that it influences the precision as you start pushing the trigger really hard...

- line release mechanism movement is hard to explain, smooth but needs pressure applied, is your experience the same?

Salvimar advertise the mech to loads up to 350kg and very smooth experience, yet I feel like im shooting my omer cayman GI completly overpowered by double 14mm.
At 350kg should easily sustain 3 bands setup...

I hope you guys can share some experiences, is it a faulty mech or thats how it is.
 
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:(
Don't know about the hero but stiff safety catches are more common than not on spearguns in my limited experience* and probably there mainly because competitions require them.

* I don't use the safety catch (spearguns are only safe when the bands are loose). The safety was very stiff on my original, excellent Rob Allen Sparid railgun. I don't recall even trying the safety catches on my 2 excellent Omer XXVs nor my 2 newest Apnea spearguns (both v. good but barely used, so far).

Surprised switching from 16mm bands to 14mm bands is causing you problems. :(
 
Perhaps that's why my Apnea roller gun has an adjustable trigger tension dial on top?
 
I recall seeing a new Omer (a Cayman perhaps?) last year or the year before that came standard with 3 x 14mm bands!! A little excessive for us in GB perhaps but might suit your wahoo needs?
(Although a member told me that Omer is not as good since it changed ownership & manufacturing moved abroad :( ).
 
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Did you change wishbone type?? If you changed from metal to Dyneema you might need to adjust the spear grooves (as I did on my Omer XXVs).
 
Salvimar Metal mechanisms were defective. All of them became hard after some time. Hero were better. Which one do you have?

There are several better options in the same price frame; Ermes Avatar, Sigalsub, Meandros...
 
.
I hope you guys can share some experiences, is it a faulty mech or thats how it is.
I never had the hero, but metal is heavy trigger and heavy safety. But, honestly, this is my go-to gun. Mine is 75cm with two 14mm bands. Not sure, but it feels easier, not heavier, over time. Or perhaps my finger got stronger, I don’t even think anymore, see fish - shoot fish. Safety being as hard as it is, is better left off, just like you do now.
 
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Hey guys,

I need some more insight on your Salvimar hero/metal triggers and experience using them under loads.

Ive gotten the gun quite recently and its been a love hate relationship so far to the point I simply don't trust the trigger.

First thing first:
- the locking/safety mechanism was very hard to lock/unlock OUT of the box. Impossible to do with 1 finger. Currently I need to use shaft butt to press it.
Yes - I DONT use lock/safety ever as precaution but I find it unreasonable.
An unlocked safety was also blocking the trigger from the box, weird?

- the standard bands are 16mm 325%, for a wahoo its a bit underpowered so I replaced them with cressi small ID 14mm at 350-360% and here starts the hate relationship - the trigger become quite hard to the point that I literally dont know when it will go off and on top of that it influences the precision as you start pushing the trigger really hard...

- line release mechanism movement is hard to explain, smooth but needs pressure applied, is your experience the same?

Salvimar advertise the mech to loads up to 350kg and very smooth experience, yet I feel like im shooting my omer cayman GI completly overpowered by double 14mm.
At 350kg should easily sustain 3 bands setup...

I hope you guys can share some experiences, is it a faulty mech or thats how it is.
Regarding the hard trigger, my guess is something is going on with the sear in the mech. Is it a reverse trigger mech style? If so, I'm going to guess there's a scratch(es) there. If you dismantle the mech, you can probably polish it out, but it'll likely come back over time. This is normally due to the varying hardness of the contacting metals.

To avoid all of this, I've switched my mechs to the Ermes double roller. Mario makes them for certain pre-made handles, but it may be worth just switching to their Ermes Avatar handle. This is the same mech that Mako is now using in their guns. Smooth trigger pull/shot and line release.

I think it's more of an inherent issue with the Hero mechs, just like the Pathos reverse trigger mechs.
 
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Here is what I pulled out of the water day before yesterday, with Salvimar Metal 75cm gun:

B10D2E8B-0A22-4BA9-9A9F-477D8563EE8B.jpeg
 
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trigger is heavy, but workable. Heavy trigger isn’t a rough sear issue. I have polished a few sears, on 1911‘s, lee enfoelds etc, you name it. On Salvimar, heavy trigger is design issue. The way it is coupled with line release I think. Try this - wind up the line hard, so there is a bit of pressure on line release arm. Trigger gets lighter. I haven’t tried, but I think you might even accidentally release the shaft, by pressing on line release arm.
 
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Trigger mechanisms can have a high pull if pulling the trigger drives the mechanism backwards against the band pull. Ideally when you pull the trigger it revolves and the sear lever just sits there without moving at all as the arc that the trigger contact sweeps through does not lift the sear lever tail which in a reverse trigger mechanism points forwards. Even if the parts were designed correctly a tiny error in the pivot pin spacing can result in the levers trying to push each other instead of sliding past each other. A roller on the sear lever tail still needs to obey this sliding rather than pushing aspect which it may on paper but not in practice. Wide levers in terms of thickness should provide a greater bearing surface, but they won’t if the surfaces are not flat to each other and that includes any mould parting lines which create a mini hill. Other problems can occur when the pivot pins are not parallel and may be slightly tilted in the housing frame, it does not take much when the band loads are high to expose shortcomings in the trigger mechanism in terms of pull required to fire the gun.
 
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Jack Prodanovich, one of the great contributors to the sport of spearfishing and heavy equipment design for shooting big fish rather than tiddlers soon recognised the importance of curve matching in his trigger designs. He had been making guns when the sport was just beginning and his mechanisms were built using grinding tools and jigs to get around meshing problems. That meant his two piece trigger did not drive the mechanism backwards because when cutting the trigger profile the trigger piece revolved on what was the trigger pivot, the holes being cut first and all the shapes generated with respect to the holes. He knew that even the best designed forms were no good if the holes were drilled slightly out of position or they did not match the pin spacing in the housing in terms of lever separation in the housing.

One gun that was notorious for pushing the trigger mechanism backwards was the Sampson gun, a gun for big hitters that was based on an up-scaled and redesigned French Arbalete on steroids. The French gun also pushed the spear back slightly against the band pull, but mitigated it with a curved sear tooth profile engaging a matched spear tail notch whereas the Sampson had a V shaped tooth and spear tail notch. The curved notch “euro tail” is still with us today.
 
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Yes, im gonna roast salvimar again(!), since you make the same MISTAKE AGAIN with customer support.

I have emailed customer support, back and forth, solved it on my own while probably giving them total information what is wrong with the design and machine process(?) likely. Once I solved it, not even f*** was given with a response back.

If you go through history of my posts on deeperblue you will find, it took salvimar 2 years(!) to PICK UP and follow up with my claim and bad Noah Mask design failures on multiple masks on the belt mounting point that afterall their commercial department reached me - well at least case was closed personally by Marco Zaninni. Said it took just 2 years after first email.

After taking a very carefull approach I gave salvimar a second chance.

Back to the Hero Mech.

Basicly the whole mech to my understanding might WARP and under high load the pins that rotate the trigger and roller were probably out of aligment, simply screwing the entire trigger/roller pins and safety positions... But you ask HOW is that possible? More below.

1. Roller is working ok
2. Im sure safety was pressed all the way down from right side. I dont use it and it was impossible to move it (almost) when I got the gun first.
I remember when I got the gun in unlocked position it would sometimes latch on safety when using the trigger which I found really strange but I didnt pay much attention to it in dry and unloaded.

Anyhow I played with everything dismantled for almost 3 hours trying to understand the details in its funcioning and troubleshooting piece by piece.
I THINK I MIGHT HAVE FOUND THE CULPRIT and testing in water everything seems to work good, I have landed multiple wahoos by the time as I write this on deeperblue.

Let me explain. I have put numbers on fotos for reference to make it easier to understand.

Foto 1 & 2- biggest pin, the one used to lock the entire mechanism into the gun.
One side of the pin is slightly sheered(?), Its not smooth at all.
Foto 4 - do you see abundant oxidation on the mech side from the main pin? This is the same side as the sheered pin FOTO 1+2.
FOTO 3 - main pin (foto 1&2) entering side to lock the mechanism into gun.
If the pin was entered from the RED side the mechanism fails - tried 3 times, same result (SEE VIDEO) & safety DOES NOT WORK properly (very hard to lock/unlock safety)
If the pin was entered from the GREEN side the mechanism works ok (tested under load today, 2x350% 14mm) & the safety WORKS nicely.
FOTO 5 - bite marks from trigger in unlocked position.

To me seems like when securing the mechanism into gun with the pin in such (red) way was maybe warping(?)the side walls of the trigger cousing the roller trigger/pins and safety not be in the perfect aligment?
Was the pin or the hole it goes into imperfect size cousing extra wear and potentially warping the walls?

Its definetly good setup for big pelagics due to its mass (2.2-2.4kg! entire setup) with 95cm gun and even 7.5mm with double 14mm at 350% I landed couple wahoos this short season is but I am not sure if I will be able to land the smaller fish easily as the season change as the trigger could be little more sensitive, will take time to get used to but I think im getting there.

A friend of a buddy supposedly has similar issue, I am still waiting to see his mech though.

So what is your opinion?
 

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I personally dont undestand but im not an engineer. Why wasnt there put a small pin/crossbar welded at the bottom of the mech to make it a bit more stiff at the bottom but it might have made it a nightmare to put and secure the mech or virtually impossible to slide into its place or pricy to manufacture.
 
Yes, im gonna roast salvimar again(!), since you make the same MISTAKE AGAIN with customer support.

I have emailed customer support, back and forth, solved it on my own while probably giving them total information what is wrong with the design and machine process(?) likely. Once I solved it, not even f*** was given with a response back.

If you go through history of my posts on deeperblue you will find, it took salvimar 2 years(!) to PICK UP and follow up with my claim and bad Noah Mask design failures on multiple masks on the belt mounting point that afterall their commercial department reached me - well at least case was closed personally by Marco Zaninni. Said it took just 2 years after first email.

After taking a very carefull approach I gave salvimar a second chance.

Back to the Hero Mech.

Basicly the whole mech to my understanding might WARP and under high load the pins that rotate the trigger and roller were probably out of aligment, simply screwing the entire trigger/roller pins and safety positions... But you ask HOW is that possible? More below.

1. Roller is working ok
2. Im sure safety was pressed all the way down from right side. I dont use it and it was impossible to move it (almost) when I got the gun first.
I remember when I got the gun in unlocked position it would sometimes latch on safety when using the trigger which I found really strange but I didnt pay much attention to it in dry and unloaded.

Anyhow I played with everything dismantled for almost 3 hours trying to understand the details in its funcioning and troubleshooting piece by piece.
I THINK I MIGHT HAVE FOUND THE CULPRIT and testing in water everything seems to work good, I have landed multiple wahoos by the time as I write this on deeperblue.

Let me explain. I have put numbers on fotos for reference to make it easier to understand.

Foto 1 & 2- biggest pin, the one used to lock the entire mechanism into the gun.
One side of the pin is slightly sheered(?), Its not smooth at all.
Foto 4 - do you see abundant oxidation on the mech side from the main pin? This is the same side as the sheered pin FOTO 1+2.
FOTO 3 - main pin (foto 1&2) entering side to lock the mechanism into gun.
If the pin was entered from the RED side the mechanism fails - tried 3 times, same result (SEE VIDEO) & safety DOES NOT WORK properly (very hard to lock/unlock safety)
If the pin was entered from the GREEN side the mechanism works ok (tested under load today, 2x350% 14mm) & the safety WORKS nicely.
FOTO 5 - bite marks from trigger in unlocked position.

To me seems like when securing the mechanism into gun with the pin in such (red) way was maybe warping(?)the side walls of the trigger cousing the roller trigger/pins and safety not be in the perfect aligment?
Was the pin or the hole it goes into imperfect size cousing extra wear and potentially warping the walls?

Its definetly good setup for big pelagics due to its mass (2.2-2.4kg! entire setup) with 95cm gun and even 7.5mm with double 14mm at 350% I landed couple wahoos this short season is but I am not sure if I will be able to land the smaller fish easily as the season change as the trigger could be little more sensitive, will take time to get used to but I think im getting there.

A friend of a buddy supposedly has similar issue, I am still waiting to see his mech though.

So what is your opinion?
Hi!
I noticed the same with my Hero, had my trigger "catch" a few times while I was fishing, and every time I was 100% sure I fully disengaged the safety by fully pressing it in.
Upon disassembly, I noticed the same corrosion on the trigger mech and the retention pin as shown in your pictures (would have to disassemble the gun again to check if it is on the same side though). Tried inserting the pin from the green side, but I pushed it a bit too far and by pressing it back in from the other side I basically inserted it back from the red direction. And last time I went fishing I had another trigger catch with the safety disengaged. The photo below shows the state of my safety latch if it is of any help.
In general, I am really satisfied with how the gun works and shoots. I used to engage and disengage the safety during dives, as an extra precaution.

Now I was considering either removing the safety altogether and not messing with the trigger, trying to reinsert the pin from the green direction, this time more carefully, or going full out and modifying it (grinding it down if needed, etc.) until it works 110%

In general, I don't mind messing with things and making them better so it makes me really interested in why it is not functioning properly, so might end up modifying it until it works as it should. Just thought I would reply to your post just in case you managed to figure something out, to save me and the next person dealing with this problem some time finding the solution.
 

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The safety cam in a speargun mechanism usually has a slot for the back edge of the trigger to swing into when the gun shoots, but if the levers can wander slightly from side to side in the mechanism housing then the trigger can hit the edge of any slot rather than backing right into it. When the safety is applied this slot is revolved or slid to be out of alignment so the trigger hits the blocking bar instead and cannot go back to fire, but if it doesn’t align completely when the safety is off it still will not shoot. You can either widen the gap slightly or put thin washers in to stop the trigger moving sideways in the gun.
 
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This diagram was done by spearq8 for the thread on Spearboard that I referenced here earlier. On most standard trigger mechanisms the safety cam is positioned right behind the trigger arm, but here Salvimar have moved the safety cam back and put a rear extension or projection on the trigger to interact with it. This extension serves two purposes, it can be blocked by the safety cam and it stops the trigger revolving too far back with that rearmost step on it. Safety cams can either be a D shape and are rotated to activate or they can be pushed from side to side moving a slot or gap in line with the trigger, the latter is commonly used on pneumatic guns using a slide with a cut-out in it. For them to work properly the trigger has to be lined up on the slot when the gun is set to shoot, that is safety “off” or “fire”.
Salvimar Hero mech.jpg

Undersee Trigger 001.jpg

safety slide.jpg
 
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