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Salvimar Predathor Vuoto 100

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
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Just looking at a Salvimar line slide and I see why they can break. The rear end is slotted on either side, which means the skirt strength is compromised and the impact with the stop ring can bend and bust the remaining plastic lugs. Better to have a solid tail end which can be found on most other plastic line slides such as Mares use for their "Sten" series.
MARES STEN LINE SLIDE
Salvimar line slide
 
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Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
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Incoming curve ball but I have actually broken the Mares type slider! Bear in mind that it was not a Mares branded one, but one that came with a Devoto shaft. The plastic on some of those sliders is just really brittle.

Now, I still haven't figured out which design of Salvi's sliders are the "new and improved" and which is the old and brittle one? I actually thought the one above in Pete's post was the new one? Or perhaps the design was always the same and they just changed the material to a less brittle one? Anyone?
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

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Jul 30, 2008
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I have never had a problem with the old Mares slider which is the one that the “Sten” was first issued with. The material is a tough polymer which is not acetal, as some sliders appear to be made from today, and has a tough consistency. It seems to be the same stuff as the end cap bulkhead moldings were manufactured from before glass reinforced material was used in those major components. I had a number of them as every time I purchased a spare Mares shaft it was equipped with a “nylon” slider, shock spring and a metal stop ring (not always in stainless steel).
Main guns RR

The silvery looking gun is the original Mares "Sten", note the "tow rope" shooting line to ensure no escapes in rocky terrain.
 
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Tigger

Member
Mar 16, 2014
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Hi I done a stupid bad thing to my Predathor, can anyone help me? Feeling edgy in rough sea, I clipped my gun the the bottom of my float, I then dragged the float over some kelp and found the spear shaft had been pulled almost all the way out of the barrel, I tried to pull it out then I did the "stupid bad thing" and pulled the trigger out of the water, spear fired and gun wouldn't reload after. So after investigation please see photos, is it the cup on the end of the piston that I've broken i.e I need to get a replacement piston? Any suggestions how I can extract the remaining part of the piston from the barrel?
 

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Stamatis

Stamatis

Active Member
Aug 29, 2017
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Hi I done a stupid bad thing to my Predathor, can anyone help me? Feeling edgy in rough sea, I clipped my gun the the bottom of my float, I then dragged the float over some kelp and found the spear shaft had been pulled almost all the way out of the barrel, I tried to pull it out then I did the "stupid bad thing" and pulled the trigger out of the water, spear fired and gun wouldn't reload after. So after investigation please see photos, is it the cup on the end of the piston that I've broken i.e I need to get a replacement piston? Any suggestions how I can extract the remaining part of the piston from the barrel?
It has to be the piston (it's definitely black). Pumping some air should pop the piston out, I think.
 
T

Tigger

Member
Mar 16, 2014
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It has to be the piston (it's definitely black). Pumping some air should pop the piston out, I think.


No dice Stamatis, but thanks. The stuck part of the piston must be cracked as I can hear the air burping out. All I did was blow out all the milky oil. I'm going to have a think and maybe try drilling a hole in it then super glueing something I can use to pull it out. Or is there a way to get the other end off to push it out?
 
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,698
459
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Be careful with the drill - if you scratch the inner wall you might have problems with the piston sealing later on.
Next up is taking the gun apart completely and just pushing the piston out from the rear end of the barrel. It's less work than it sounds like.

Also, remember to check if you did any damage to the shock absorber. It might be jammed in the muzzle and/or some of the o-rings might have broken from the impact.

I'd put a Mares 13mm piston in there as a replacement.
 
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Stamatis

Stamatis

Active Member
Aug 29, 2017
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No dice Stamatis, but thanks. The stuck part of the piston must be cracked as I can hear the air burping out. All I did was blow out all the milky oil. I'm going to have a think and maybe try drilling a hole in it then super glueing something I can use to pull it out. Or is there a way to get the other end off to push it out?
I don't get it, how can it be so jammed??? Is it possible to push it in? (I assume you have depressurized the chamber already).
 
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,698
459
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I don't get it, how can it be so jammed??? Is it possible to push it in? (I assume you have depressurized the chamber already).
It possibly expanded upon impact and/or a rear seal got jammed under the plastic. But yeah, when my princessy STC piston broke in half, it came right out. Then again, that didn't experience the brute impact this one did.
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
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The seals have probably torn and the piston, or what is left of it, is canted over in the barrel and jamming in the barrel bore. To extract it there are two ways to do it. You can drill and tap what is left of the piston, screw a small screw into the thread and use that to pull it out with pliers grabbing the screw head. Alternately you undo the inlet valve body, withdraw it and put a garden hose nozzle against the rear of the gun and blast the piston out with water pressure. Although the latter seems rather drastic it is easy to dry the gun by leaving it open for a few days then reassemble the gun with a new piston, etc.

Milky oil suggests that the gun has already inspired water, so flushing it out may be the best option.
 
T

Tigger

Member
Mar 16, 2014
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Thanks everyone for the help, I'm learning a lot.

Stamatis..It's not jammed, it can be pushed in but it doesn't move easily, there's nothing to get hold of to pull it out. Yes it's de presurised.

Diving geko... the shock absorber looks ok, but I'll give it a proper look. Is the Mares 13mm better, I was thinking of getting the salvimar Race kit as it's only a few £ more than the salvimar piston I smashed.

Popgun Pete... Thanks I think I'll do the second option you suggest, can I just check this is all pretty new to me by the "inlet valve body" you mean the bit where I'd screw the pump into pump it up?
 
T

Tigger

Member
Mar 16, 2014
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Oh one more question, what oil and how much should I use when putting it back together?
 
Stamatis

Stamatis

Active Member
Aug 29, 2017
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Oh one more question, what oil and how much should I use when putting it back together?
gecko and pete know better, but you either get the salvi oil, or the one used for bike suspensions, the 10w. Oh, and there have been some issues with the race kit, so you better use the one it came with originally, or the mares. as for the quantity, if you have the 100 version, it's 45 ml according to the manual.
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
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Thanks everyone for the help, I'm learning a lot.

Stamatis..It's not jammed, it can be pushed in but it doesn't move easily, there's nothing to get hold of to pull it out. Yes it's de presurised.

Diving geko... the shock absorber looks ok, but I'll give it a proper look. Is the Mares 13mm better, I was thinking of getting the salvimar Race kit as it's only a few £ more than the salvimar piston I smashed.

Popgun Pete... Thanks I think I'll do the second option you suggest, can I just check this is all pretty new to me by the "inlet valve body" you mean the bit where I'd screw the pump into pump it up?
Yes, the inlet valve body screws into the back end of the inner barrel and is part of the clamp that holds the gun together, the other end being the muzzle. The "bar" of this clamp is the inner barrel tube itself. After the gun has fully dried out from the hosing with water use motorcycle fork oil of SAE 10 grade, the amount is given in the owner's handbook. A fork is another name for the hydraulic shock absorbers which sit either side of the bike's front wheel.

In fact here is the table for oil quantities.
Vintair  Vintair oil volumes

Predathor diag
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
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Note when drying the gun out set the power regulator to full power, i.e. forward and down in the selector gate. Let us know how you get on once you have finished extracting the busted piston, especially as it struck the spear tail at the far end of the inner barrel.
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

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Jul 30, 2008
4,566
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It is interesting to note that the Salvimar guns are sold in Russia as Scorpena guns.
Scorpena pneumatic gun
 
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,698
459
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Personally, I am not a huge fan of the race kit - apart from the nice color, I don't know that it is that much of an improvement.
As for the Mares piston, I like it since I have never had an issue with any of them and they are highly regarded in Italy where there are a lot of airgun spearos and tinkerers. That piston just seems tougher somehow. Not super racy, not super light but not bad at all either.

You need to figure out a way to unscrew the pump valve - in a pinch you can find a piece of flat metal, I even used a metal file at one point, and place it in a vice and then place the gun on top of that. But this may be a good occasion to build yourself a little specialty tool like in Pete's thread here:
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/diy-tool-for-removing-rear-inlet-valve.93638/#post-870311

Keep in mind, the Salvi inlet valve has slightly different dimensions than the Mares one, so while the outer diameter is still 20mm, the lugs will need to be a bit different, so disregard Pete's numbers in the first post.
 
Stamatis

Stamatis

Active Member
Aug 29, 2017
122
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Yes, the inlet valve body screws into the back end of the inner barrel and is part of the clamp that holds the gun together, the other end being the muzzle. The "bar" of this clamp is the inner barrel tube itself. After the gun has fully dried out from the hosing with water use motorcycle fork oil of SAE 10 grade, the amount is given in the owner's handbook. A fork is another name for the hydraulic shock absorbers which sit either side of the bike's front wheel.

In fact here is the table for oil quantities.
View attachment 52815View attachment 52816
Hey, Pete, that's not the table I have! (The Predathor doensn't come at a 95 version)
Here is a snapshot of the relevant manual page:
1540111963820
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,302
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It is the “Vintair” table, but the oil quantities are the same within a certain length range as with more internal surface to spread a film of oil over longer models use more oil, but the active oil sloshing around is about the same. I wrote a thread on this topic some time ago. I have also replaced the "Predathor" diagram with one that includes the oil quantities table.
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/how-much-extra-oil.101614/#post-934299
 
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T

Tigger

Member
Mar 16, 2014
10
2
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Thanks everyone for the help I was able to get the piston out using a screw. Here's a photo of the damage and a unscathed shock. New piston and oil on order (plus a new shock just incase) so should be back together soon. Thanks for the help everyone lesson learned.
 

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