Salvimar predathor vuoto 100cm phenumatic gun

[Philip32]

Hi Guys

Does anyone have this gun?
If so could you please help me I am looking at it as an option as I find the mares cyrano 1100 too long to load with out a load assist.

I am looking at the salvimar 100 as I hear it’s longer than the 100cm length but hopefully a little shorter than the cyrano.

I am after the length of the gun in total.

And having the vacuum barrel I am hoping it is quite and at my maximum reach.

Also any chance I can get a bit of a fish hand review of the performance issues etc
I have also seen these have race kits to get more out of the gun are these worth the extra money?

Thank you in advance

 

[Diving Gecko]

Hi Philip,
From my notes on the Predathor 85 I measured that gun to have an overall length (not including spear) of 92.4cm (muzzle to upper end of handle) or 96cm (muzzle to very end of handle).
So, the 100 model should be about 106-107cm long from muzzle to the end of the handle on the top where the pump inserts or 110cm if you include the bottom of the angled back grip.
I don't know how the Cyrano measures - but my Mares Sten is the same physical length as the model designation which is why I normally say Predathors are about 6-7cm longer than Stens in the same "model size". I would hazard a guess the Cyrano measure about 110cm from muzzle to the end of the handle?

 

[Diving Gecko]

As for the race kit, I can't really see where the raciness comes from. Well, the piston might have a little less friction and be a bit lighter, but how much of a performance gain there is in real life, I don't know. Someone here had some experience with it though. Use the search function and you might find it.
The fancy green trigger doesn't do anything other than having an adjustable trigger pull length (it doesn't change the trigger pull weight). And on the Predathor gun where the line release is directly linked to the trigger itself it can be questioned how much you can actually adjust the length of the pull before you run into problems with the line release becoming erratic (though I am just speculating here). The line release is no different than the black stock one - it's just a different color.

Now, to the extended loader - you could consider a trick I read about but haven't used myself: Tie a loop of rope on the handle and put your foot in that loop when you load. That will lower the gun bringing the muzzle down with it so you can reach the tip of the shaft with a regular loader. I don't mind the extended loaders, so haven't needed to try this trick but maybe others have?

Finally, you could consider making a custom length gun but you would need someone with a metal lathe. It wouldn't be that hard. You would need to cut down the reservoir and do the same to the shaft and inner barrel and re-thread the two latter as well as cut an o-ring groove in the barrel. I actually bought a hobby lathe a few months ago and have done this myself now. Even with zero machining practice I still succeeded so it's not that hard, actually.
If you can get the machining done for free or cheap, then the overall cheapest solution to your problem would be to shorten your Cyrano and buy a Vuoto muzzle for it;-)

 

[Diving Gecko]

Pistons: Salvimar vs. Mares
A bit more info on the pistons. I do have a Vuoto 85 in disassembled state (actually haven't even shot it yet as I have been busy with my Mirages) and I also have a race set for it so took some snaps just now.
I think Salvi is on their third version of the race piston now? I think mine is V2. But it is confusing. Some have more of a reduced diameter in the middle of the piston than others and one even just looks like a stock piston with only the o-rings changed for green ones.

But here we go with some weight comparisons:
Stock Predathor Piston:

Race Kit Piston (V2?):

And a comparison to the classic from Mares:

As you can tell, the Mares stock piston is still quite a bit lighter. Also, the way, besides weight reduction, that most third party brands try to make the pistons better is by reducing the friction from the seals. As you might also have noticed, both of the Salvi pistons have two o-rings and one cup seal whereas the Mares has one of each. Actually, the cup seal is something you never see on "performance pistons" from e.g. STC, UBL, etc. I believe the thinking is that cup seals expand a whole lot under pressure; their flanges expand and are forced against the wall of the barrel but since they have a lot more area than o-rings, they have more friction as a result. By the same token, I have seen mentionings of some spearos just getting rid of the cup seal to reduce friction.

Furthermore, the stock Mares piston is also shorter than both the Salvi ones:

So, this is why I think the Salvi race pistons aren't really that racy. But on that point, do we really want that? I have mentioned in other places that both of the STC pistons I had broke. My UBL pistons have been crazy strong but they also have a completely different design so you would need a new muzzle and shaft tails which gets pricey.
For piston recommendations, I keep coming back to the Mares pistons as I just haven't had any issues with them and haven't heard of them breaking. For a gun that should just work, for someone who doesn't want to tinker too much they are very likely the best option.

 

[John M Orcsi]

I have the darkside 85 wich is same as a predathor except carbon barrel. All i can tell ya is my 85 will punch through stripers 50 pounds nearly 1ft thick. I do have the new salvimar teflon coated pistons that i havnt tried yet. I pretty much changed muzzle,piston and spear out for other brands. Its a pain in neck getting salvimar parts shipped to usa. Got a stc kit on my gun now to try out. Water only 43 degrees still. Couple weeks i will try it. Anyway i'd imagine the 100 will be more then enough unless you're trying to shoot jaws.

 

[Philip32]

Hi diving gecko and John

Thank you for taking the time to help.

Very informative and very much appreciated.

I am with you on the pistons now after seeing them in that layout.

This leaves me with too choices the salvimar or the mares with the vuoto muzzle.

The line loop on the gun I can’t understand how you can get this on your foot with fins wouldn’t this slow you down?

I like the trigger safety on the cyrano.

But the line release looks good on the salvimar.

Overall from your comments I think I need to reconsider the cyrano with the vuoto attachment and a rigging handle.

I am shooting reef and mackerel.

 

[Diving Gecko]

I think the cyrano should be fine. You'll save money, too.
If the trigger pin in that gun is 1.5mm you'll also have a softer trigger which I personally like.
As for the trigger safety I generally don't use safeties. I think of any gun, safety on or not, as a loaded, dangerous thing so do my utmost to never point it anywhere unsafe. You'll find many spearos who actually get rid of their safety for two reasons; the one above about only trusting yourself to keep your gun safe and secondly, a safety will sometimes catch you out and be on when you don't need it;-)

As for the loop on the foot, the idea is to put your heel in, only. So, you don't put your fin in the loop only the heel. I've read about it and some say it works well. But then again, I made a belt holster for my double loader so I don't mind using it at all. Search the forum for "extended loader" and it should turn up. I don't use the bungee on it anymore, though but it's nice enough to have.


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[Philip32]

Hi Diving gecko

Thank you.

Cyrano maybe my option with the vuoto kit.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Is it the old one with the blue handle? Come to think about it, some say they are nose heavy (more than other airguns), so if you haven't hunted with it for a while perhaps it would be worth checking out before you spend money on a muzzle. Also, remember to check if it is an 11 or 13mm barrel (I think Cyrano is 11mm?) before you potentially order a muzzle.

 

[Philip32]

Hi Diving Gecko

I am looking to buy a new gun and set up.

Need a more powerful gun with a little more range.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Oh, I misunderstood - I thought you had the Cyrano already. So, forget about all that... haha


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[Nico66]

Hi Diving Gecko

I am looking to buy a new gun and set up.

Need a more powerful gun with a little more range.

Hi,
why don't you simply consider the 100cm mares sten 13?
The gun is not really more powerfull than your 110 cyrano (very good and reliable gun: a lot of exotic trippers used cyrano without vaccum kit) , but it's neither less powerfull because of the 13mm barrel.
Moreover you can load without a load assist (the "100cm" is in fact 97/98cm long) and you can easily find a vaccuum kit.

 

[Philip32]

Hi Nico66

What effective range differences are between the two?

I haven’t looked at the sten.
Having a 13mm barrel I can run a 8mm shaft for better penetration?

Thanks for the help

 

[Nico66]

Hi Nico66

What effective range differences are between the two?

I haven’t looked at the sten.
Having a 13mm barrel I can run a 8mm shaft for better penetration?

Thanks for the help

I can't tell you exactly the effective range of both guns (and i had only a sten11, not the cyrano model). It depends not only on the fishes you hunt, but also the configuration of the gun (shaft diameter, pressure, etc).

AS an exemple i can tell you that for "smalls fish from 1kg to 2kg" (i don't have the experience of the big tropical fishes you have in australia), i can shoot them at the end of the line on both of these configurations:
- 100cm sten 13, 105cm*7mm shaft , 20 bars, salvimar vuoto vacuum kit. My shoot line is about 5.45 m long and you can add the 105 cm of shaft,
- 110 cm sten11, 120cm*7mm shat, 25 bars, STC Xpower kit. My shoot line is about 6m and you can and the 120cm of the shaft,
- 120 hybride hunter/sten13, 7mm*125cm shaft, 22/23bars, pelengas kit. My shoot line is about 6.9m and you can and the 125cm of the shaft.
But i don't shoot on fishes this far ! i usually shoot closer and put them on the line (not on the shaft). At this distance, the shoots are too hard.

If you want to use a 8mm shaft you just have to increasse the pressure: on a 100cm sten13, i think 24/25 bars will be more than enough.

 

[Diving Gecko]

In all honesty, I believe there is no real differences between these guns if they are all vacuum barreled, at equivalent pressure and shooting the same shafts and rigging & slider setups.

Back when I got into spearing I got obsessed with these things, too and the replies that were not really what I was after is what I will give you now;
Any of these guns will make you happy. Buy the one that you feel the best about.

To elaborate, the internals of all these guns is extremely similar, nothing big has changed in 40 years, really. There's possibly a tiny(?) advantage on the Mares Evo guns in that they have a larger bore in their regulator bulkheads but so does the Predathor. Whether it's a real world improvement or just marketing jive I do not know.


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[Diving Gecko]

As Nico also shows, an airgun is a very powerful tool and I doubt you will have any issues getting fish. I shot a small handful of 10kg macks in Indonesia recently on my 120ish Mirage and had zero issues with penetration. Strung 2/3rds of them on the line, I'd say. Not from huge distances but still not super close. I'm fairly sure I could have taken the same fish on a standard 110cm airgun.
I'd say unless you are shooting really thick bodied big fish with thicker shafts, you don't need to worry. And if you really want longer then just deal with the extended loader - it's a non-issue if you ask me.
Go through Gazz's posts here and consider dropping him a PM or ask him kindly to post on this thread. He has Aussie waters experience with longer airguns hunting bigger fish.



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[Diving Gecko]

As for the 11mm vs. 13mm we have had that discussion before and I almost dare say we reached a concensus. I, personally, think most spearos will pressurize the gun almost to the max that they are able to load and if they are doing that, it doesn't really matter if you are on an 11mm or 13mm gun - the output power will be equal. That is, of course, when we are talking vacuum barrels. You could argue that an 11mm piston has less friction and that the 13mm gun has a softer trigger pull and better service life (as pressures will be lower for the same power) but I think the differences are academic only.
Now, I don't own an 11mm gun and I can't remember if you can run 8mm shafts in them - I'd like to know that, too.

Since we are talking about shafts, I do think it makes sense to go to 7.5 or 8mm if you are after bigger fish. Airgun shafts are much shorter than many bandgun shafts but I feel we still have enough power to go up in shaft diameter to make up for the lack of mass.

Oh, come to think about it, I think it makes a lot of sense to just choose something longer in the same gun model that you already have. Then swapping between guns is less of an issue in terms of aiming and handling. Also, if the gun you use the most dies on you, you can still swap over parts from the less used one until spare parts arrive.
Remind us, which airgun do you have now?

P.S. A few links:
Extended Loader; https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/extended-loader-holder.99045/
A search for "Gazz" and "Asso" turns up a slew of good stuff on his longer guns (I'd drop him a PM): https://forums.deeperblue.com/search/360382/?q=asso&o=date&c[user][0]=5814

 

[tromic]

...
Now, I don't own an 11mm gun and I can't remember if you can run 8mm shafts in them - I'd like to know that, too.
...

You can not, except if it were 8 mm "free shaft".

 

[Philip32]

Hi Diving Gecko and nico

Thank you for your help

I have a lot to think about now

 

[Stamatis]

I have made a thread about the specific gun, you can see some info and my experience there.
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/salvimar-predathor-vuoto-100.109654/