"Seabear" operating pressure

[popgun pete]

Anyone who has used a "Seabear" pneumatic speargun will have found it very hard to load the gun and pull the trigger while holding the gun steady if you pump it up to the maximum recommended pressure in the English language handbook supplied with the gun. In fact it is very hard to put the stipulated 400 pump strokes into the gun as the hand pump seems to quit after about 200 strokes with very little indication that any air is transferring into the gun after passing that number of pump strokes.

Well imagine my surprise when I recently found the original Russian language handbook for the "Seabear" ("Pirometr" in Russia) guns on the Web. The layout of both documents is very similar, but maximum pumping pressure is listed at 170 hand pump strokes, not 400, so the "Most Atlantic Company" that were distributing the guns in the West were promoting the gun as operating at twice its recommended maximum operating pressure! No wonder that trigger was so hard to pull! Plus it may have risked bending the piston tail and the sear lever hook in the rear of the gun using that sort of pressure.

The "Seabear" is now sold in Russia as the "Orion", if you look up their web-site you can see the original Russian language handbook on a link to a pdf file. The pumping table is self-explanatory, you do not need to understand Russian to work out what it says.

 

[popgun pete]

Here is the URL for the "Orion" pneumatic speargun: http://www.harpoongun.ru/orion/manual.html

 

[slingshaft]

Hey Pete, Thanks so much, I'm glad that I did not blow out the seals on my guns.

 

[hyeparis]

I own one. It is in Russia so I don't have the manual with me, but I am pretty sure it would not have allowed 400 strokes. The other things to watch out is to avoid putting the line too tight on the line-holder-releaser below the trigger as too much (or even not too much) pressure on that releaser, which is connected to the trigger, is equal to pulling the trigger - I once fired the spear accidentaly that way.
You should also make sure no sand gets into the barrel as this causes the shaft to fall off even when it has been loaded.

 

[popgun pete]

Later models of the "Seabear" dispensed with the line release lever pivoting directly on the tip of the trigger by employing a separate line release lever with a small roller that ran under the flat widened base at the tip of a newly designed trigger. This change was no doubt to avoid the line release lever serving as a secondary trigger if the shooting line was applied too tight when installing line wraps on the gun.

It is interesting to note that the latest "Orion" version of the gun appears to have reverted back to the previous line release system judging by the photos on their web-site. The "power dial" MAK version of the gun seems to be no longer offered and the extended barrel 103 model has also been discontinued. The two models designated as "РП-1" and "РП-2", or "RP-1" and "RP-2" in the English alphabet, are the same as the "AK-72" and "AK-45" models previously sold in the West (was that "AK" designation a marketing ploy?). I assume that the "AK-103" was the "РП-3". That long stainless steel barrel makes it a heavy gun to tote around underwater, but the quality of the metal parts and standard of finish is first class, even though the painted bodywork seems a strange choice given that many similar spearguns just rely on their anodised aluminium outer surfaces to protect against corrosion.

 

[hyeparis]

Yes, it is a marketing ploy.
I have read some posts on US sites from owners of these guns thinking they have purchased almost a Russian NAVY seal speargun
In reality, it is the good old RP designed for spearing in murky freshwater (hence the handle in teh middle) and made as a sideproduct by a defense industry plan (hence, the better quality) in St. Pete. I bought mine for 50 bucks in 1998. It is a good gun, but indeed too heavy - my wrist gets tired in an hour or two.

 

[popgun pete]

The "Seabear" was promoted as having military connections, although the US distributor deliberately omitted to clarify that this was principally related to the factory that the speargun was produced in. Their very stylish appearance saw them used as props in a number of Hollywood movies, I remember seeing them in "Waterworld" and "Sphere", from memory there was vertical rack of them on display in the latter in one scene.

I also bought my gun in 1998 when the "Most Atlantic Company" ceased operations, the "Seabear" guns were heavily discounted for a while to get rid of them. Many ended up on eBay, brand new in their shipping boxes. Ray Contreras has maintained a supply of parts for them by picking up remaining inventory from former dealers in the USA and having new piston gaskets and spears manufactured. The piston gaskets do the combined job of muzzle shock absorber and spear retainer, being a clear firm plastic cylinder that is a press fit on the nose of the titanium piston, the gun is useless without them so it is a good idea to keep some spares on hand.

The gun is easy to take apart (let all the compressed air out first!), but it is worth buying the dealer repair manual for the trigger and line release adjustment information as it needs to be set just right for the pivot connected trigger and line release models to function properly.

 

[slingshaft]

Good info, Who is Ray Contreras? I'd like to get spare parts. Thanks.

 

[popgun pete]

Here is the link to his web-site: Seabear Speargun Parts

 

[rcontrera]

I know this is old but a customer gave me this link and said I should post a little history for those that are interested.

The guy that started Most Atlantic went to Russia as part of his Linguistics degree project. It was at the Pirometer factory where he was working that he saw the guns and decided to bring them in ans try to sell them through his father's furniture store. The did quite well. However, the original design was lacking in many features so we essentially upgraded it.

First off, the spear shafts were of a fairly soft stainless steel so they bent like a pretzel if shot into a large, thrashing fish. We went to adding in a hardened stainless steel shaft that was custom built for us by Joe Lamonica (JBL). Next, we changed the trigger shaft seal from a hose tied off at both ends to gland and o-ring. We also went to a titanium piston from the original stainless just for marketing purposes. Although it did travel down the barrel a little faster. There were some other smaller changes for safety or appearance but the biggest change was the introduction of the MAK version... an adjustable pressure design.

We had a little trouble with the Russians (they saw how much the dealers were selling for and demanded a huge price increase so we were sent packing when we said "nyet".

The owner paid all the sales reps off in inventory and I ended up buying what was left of the parts.


Oh ... and as far as how many pumps, they actually had a guy sitting at a stool pumping up the gun and counting. While he may have stroked the pump about 400 times, I personally don't think he actually pushed air every stroke. But you can be sure that it would hold it!

We were working on making an easy fill adapter that would hook up to a regulator. Unfortunately, the test guy hooked it up to a full cylinder HP hose and pressurized the gun to 3000 PSI! Nobody wanted to even be in the same room with it, but it did hold until the pressure was bled off.

The best part of these guns was the serviceability. Most of the other pneumatic guns I have worked with over the years have had handles made of plastic. Just taking them apart for service usually toasted one part or another. The Seabear was all stainless and aluminum and was EASY to take apart and clean. Plus, with a little instruction (the Most Atlantic guy was great at putting together a Dealer Service Manual) they were easily adjustable and would last the whole season without having to replace seals.

OK ... I've babbled enough on an old thread.

 

[Don Paul]

P hose and pressurized the gun to 3000 PSI! Nobody wanted to even be in the same room with it, but it did hold until the pressure was bled off.
Quote:rcontrera

roflroflrofl

That sent me back to my childhood when a M-80 had a bad fuse .........
Hey YOU go pick it up.:head

Cheers, Don Paul

 

[slingshaft]

Oh Hey, you are not babbling at all, some of us have Seabears and are really glad that we now know that we can continue to shoot this very interesting gun. I like the gun, my 103 is quite accurate,and blows the crap out of the targeted quarry. :ko Cheers.

 

[rcontrera]

There are a couple of common sense things to remember about these guys but seems to be the biggest problems with the people that manage to find me.

1. Never EVER shoot the gun without a shaft in the barrel. That piston will screech down the barrel so fast that it will toast the spear retainer gasket and possibly the muzzle and piston itself.
2. The shaft really needs the water for additional lubrication so never shoot the gun out of the water.
3. The handle is made of cast aluminum so, if you use it in salt water, clean it well or the back lip will corrode and break off. I suggest a rinse in Salt-X after every exposure to salt water.

 

[Prov1ml]

Hi, I was given a Seabear speargun just this last week from a family friend
who said he had bought it about 15 years ago to use and ended up never using it. It is brand new. All i got from him was the gun, loader, pump, spear,
extra spear tip, line, and some extra seals. No users manual or anything. I
have been trying to figure out the mechanics of it and and how to use it but
the Spear won't load in the gun. I can get it in about half way is all. Also,
when I pump it up, it doesn't seem to be pumping any air. I pumped maybe 30 times or so. Can you give me any information as to where I can get a manual that might explain the gun or just give me a quick "How To" on the
Seabears?

Any information you have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.
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[rcontrera]

Sounds like you have an obstruction in your barrel and your seals are shot. I suggest taking it apart, doing a good cleaning and installing the annual kit.

One of the things that got left out of the dealer's manual is that you should use a grease on the piston that won't "melt" out of the gun from sitting in the sun. I use a white teflon grease and heavily pack it in the piston center between the o-rings. That way it actually lubes the inside of the barrel each time it is loaded or shot. This minimizes the chances of rust and also makes the Spear Retainer Gasket move smoother.

Hope that helps!

 

[popgun pete]

A word of caution here. When I received my new MAK 103 Seabear the first thing that I did was to check if it was pressurized. I unscrewed the rear butt cap and pressed in the valve stem and nothing happened. Figuring that it was not pressurized I grabbed the hand pump and screwed it into the rear port, then began pumping. However the pumping effort seemed very hard, so I tried a shaft in the gun and found a lot of resistance. This seemed very puzzling, so I jiggled the inlet valve stem up and down and heard the slightest hiss of air, it was almost imperceptible even with my ear held very close to the rear port. Adding some soapy water to the inlet port showed extremely small bubbles each time I depressed the valve stem. The problem I later discovered was that the rubber washer had detached from the base of the metal valve stem and when I pushed the stem down it slipped through the rubber washer leaving it in place and still sealing. It took a lot of jiggling of the valve stem to get the air to gradually bleed out (about 1 hour!), but once the internal air pressure reached a certain level the rubber washer moved with the stem and the valve released air as it should. I foolishly re-pressurized the gun with 400 pump strokes to find exactly the same situation again before I realized that I had to dismantle the gun in order to correct the problem.

How I fixed it is I lightly sanded the removed rubber washer on one side with wet and dry paper (1200 grade) to provide a clean rubber surface and I boiled the stainless steel valve stem to eliminate any contaminants like oil or grease and then, after thorough drying had taken place, bonded the rubber washer in position with polyurethane glue. There were signs of some glue applied by the factory, but this had failed to properly secure the rubber washer onto the valve stem. The top side of the disc-shaped head on the valve stem where the rubber washer sits is deliberately rough in surface finish to aid the bonding of the washer. On AK model Seabear guns they use a disc type inlet valve, there is no valve stem as such.

The danger of dismantling a seemingly depressurized gun as above is obvious, so make very sure that the Seabear is truly out of air before doing anything hasty like unscrewing the muzzle or anything else. I know of one situation where the Seabear piston ricocheted around the workshop with extremely loud noises after someone tried this, fortunately no one was injured, but it was a very close call.

 

[Prov1ml]

When I try to load the spear it isn't like there is an abrupt blockage that won't let me go farther but rather resistance from a spring or air pressure. It must be an AK model because there is no valve stem just a black rubber disc with a hole in the middle. I unscrewed the back air chamber which I would assume I could tell if there is air pressure. I wish I had a diagram or something explaining how this thing is constructed or why I can't get it to work. I got it with what I would assume is the piston out of it and I seated two small seals around it into the chamber. It looks like one end od the spear seats againt one end od the piston, is that correct? Like I said, it's never been shot....
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[popgun pete]

If you have the rear chamber screwed off or opened up then there is no air pressure in the gun. What may have happened is this "new gun" has been dry fired at some time and the plastic piston gasket has disintegrated and the broken bits of the gasket are jamming it inside the inner barrel. To get the piston out you have to unscrew the muzzle (it is bonded with loctite so will be difficult to turn) and push the piston out with a suitable rod. That means accessing the rear end of the inner barrel which requires removing the sear pivot pin and taking the sear lever out, plus detaching the trigger pull rod which will then allow you to remove the sear lever.

Although referred to as a gasket, the piston spear retainer is a short, semi-hard, clear plastic cylinder held onto the nose of the piston by a spigot that is pushed into it. The piston body carries two "O" rings, they are the air seals, although one seals and the other stops the piston wobbling in the inner barrel. You will need a new gasket from Ray, so you may as well order a manual with parts diagram at the same time. This gasket failure probably explains why your AK Seabear has never been used.

 

[rcontrera]

You need to get a copy of the dealer's manual. It has the parts breakdown and the procedure for servicing.

If you got an extra piston and you tried to use American sized o-rings, it may have jammed in the barrel. The Russian o-rings are different size from the standard. If there is already a piston inside, that would explain getting stuck half way and feeling something springy ... most likely the old Russian rubber spear retainer gasket.

 

[Prov1ml]

So where can I get the parts diagram and any parts that I need?