Seac Asso 90, next day no air pressure

[JonathanT]

Hi All Spearo's,
Jonathan here. I am new to this forum. I fixed 1 of my 2 Seac Asso 90's that i posted earlier today about the piston going to far into the Muzzle/ shock absorber area. This other Seac 90 i have i came to find no air pressure in it after a couple days after i used it.
I already taken the muzzle off and outer barrel and was able to inspect the outter barrels 2 larger O rings, as well as the pistons's 2 O rings and rubber rear seal, as well as the power regulator, small O ring. From my inspections so far i dont see any damage to the O rings. Now i have yet to take out the rear air filling port(? section C #21 on diagram), i started to with a chisel but saw i was damaging the rear port and stopped, i need to use something better to do the job. But i was first thinkiing of refilling with air and then submerging in water to see if i see any air bubbles to locate the air leak. The gun has been used prbably about 20 times or so, not old at all. Any thoughts or comments i am all ears.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Milky.chance5]

Instead of a chisel, I suggest using a socket wrench or a similar tool that fits securely around the port. Once you have access to the rear air filling port, you can refill the speargun with air and then submerge it in water to check for any air bubbles. If you observe bubbles coming from a specific area, it's likely that you've found the source of the air leak. If you didn't find any visible damage, it's possible that the issue could be with the rear air filling port or another part of the gun.

 

[JonathanT]

Instead of a chisel, I suggest using a socket wrench or a similar tool that fits securely around the port. Once you have access to the rear air filling port, you can refill the speargun with air and then submerge it in water to check for any air bubbles. If you observe bubbles coming from a specific area, it's likely that you've found the source of the air leak. If you didn't find any visible damage, it's possible that the issue could be with the rear air filling port or another part of the gun.

Hi Milky,
Thanks for the reply.
Just to clarify I already have access to the rear port, I was referring to taking off the rear port to access any rear seals back there. But I am about to pump up to 15 bar and test. I will post any interesting results.
Thank you

 

[JonathanT]

Hi Guys,

So I just pumped up 500 strokes, boy good work out! And found the leak!
I took a spray bottle with soapy water and sprayed the whole gun down. The air leak is coming from the trigger assembly O ring. Do I have to take the rear air port out to access or can I access direct from the trigger itself?
I did see a flat head small screw right above the trigger O ring and I tried tightening and loosening that screw a bit to see if I could get it to stop leaking, no such luck. Ok let me know if anyone has replaced a trigger O ring on this Seac Asso 90 or something similar and let me know if any tricks... Or.limk me.to a post that explains.
Thanks in advance.
Pic for your reference attached.

 

[popgun pete]

https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/diy-tool-for-removing-rear-inlet-valve.93638/

 

[popgun pete]

Hi All Spearo's,
Jonathan here. I am new to this forum. I fixed 1 of my 2 Seac Asso 90's that i posted earlier today about the piston going to far into the Muzzle/ shock absorber area. This other Seac 90 i have i came to find no air pressure in it after a couple days after i used it.
I already taken the muzzle off and outer barrel and was able to inspect the outter barrels 2 larger O rings, as well as the pistons's 2 O rings and rubber rear seal, as well as the power regulator, small O ring. From my inspections so far i dont see any damage to the O rings. Now i have yet to take out the rear air filling port(? section C #21 on diagram), i started to with a chisel but saw i was damaging the rear port and stopped, i need to use something better to do the job. But i was first thinkiing of refilling with air and then submerging in water to see if i see any air bubbles to locate the air leak. The gun has been used prbably about 20 times or so, not old at all. Any thoughts or comments i am all ears.
Thanks in advance.

The search function is your friend here, these issues are already discussed here.in many cases, although not all.

 

[popgun pete]

The trigger transmission pin is what connects the plastic trigger to the sear lever inside the gun and is of a small diameter that passes through an "O" ring. These rings can wear out, but wear is often hastened by pulling the trigger when the gun is dry. Internally the gun is lubricated with oil, but you pull a trigger on the dry side. My advice if you are checking your gun out is to always dunk the handle in water before doing anything as "O" rings work best when wet, with either oil or water.

 

[popgun pete]

Hi Guys,

So I just pumped up 500 strokes, boy good work out! And found the leak!
I took a spray bottle with soapy water and sprayed the whole gun down. The air leak is coming from the trigger assembly O ring. Do I have to take the rear air port out to access or can I access direct from the trigger itself?
I did see a flat head small screw right above the trigger O ring and I tried tightening and loosening that screw a bit to see if I could get it to stop leaking, no such luck. Ok let me know if anyone has replaced a trigger O ring on this Seac Asso 90 or something similar and let me know if any tricks... Or.limk me.to a post that explains.
Thanks in advance.
Pic for your reference attached.



View attachment 59596

Refer to the gun dismantling thread, it used to be a sticky but rolls out of sight with the passage of time. How to get inside is part of the title. In fact here it is.

Pneumatic dismantling: how to get inside

Sometimes a pneumatic speargun will be difficult to disassemble easily because the parts are a tight fit (like in a Mares "Mirage"!). I have found this method useful on most rear handle pneumatic models. First release all the air with any power selector set to "maximum" as this ensures that...

forums.deeperblue.com

 

[JonathanT]

Hi All Pneumatic Spearo's,
So I managed to take apart the trigger assembly and change out the small O ring, fairly straightforward.
1. Remove pin to line catch
2. Remove pin to trigger
3. Remove small pin that engages trigger.
4. Remove metal screw with flat head screwdriver.
5. Remove small O ring with a tweezers or thin nail or something.
6. Clean threads etc ..
7. Regrease and reassemble with new O ring.
Now a few tips: my O Ring kit from Seac didn't actually have the small trigger O ring, but my Salvimar O ring kit did.
I Tefloned the metal screw to avoid leaking.
I also had to align small O ring a few times whilst screwing in metal screw as it went of center.
I didn't notice any damage to the O ring, but I did notice some grit ( fine sand) which I think was the issue.
Here is a pic for your reference.

 

[popgun pete]

Your gun is an ASSO UP, not an ASSO, that gun is of relatively recent vintage. I don't have one of those, but it shares its rear handle with the "Shotgun" which was rather short lived in the marketplace, being a not very smart hybrid gun with two tank diameters. Never used it.

https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/new-seac-shotgun.102844

https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/seac-sub-asso-update-with-new-shape-rubber-over-handle-and-big-relief-port-muzzle.118551/

 

[JonathanT]

Your gun is an ASSO UP, not an ASSO, that gun is of relatively recent vintage. I don't have one of those, but it shares its rear handle with the "Shotgun" which was rather short lived in the marketplace, being a not very smart hybrid gun with two tank diameters. Never used it.

https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/seac-sub-asso-update-with-new-shape-rubber-over-handle-and-big-relief-port-muzzle.118551/

oh i didnt even realize that...

 

[JonathanT]

I just pumped up 700 strokes, and no leaking, in the manual they say 645 i beleive is 20 bar, i was going to pump to 750. it states in manual not to exceed 25 bar.
Something to Note to other Spearo's that i beleive rings true that Popgun Pete has stated in other threads: I am paraphrasing here: If you keep your gun well looked after and dont place it in sandy conditions and rinse well right after getting out of the water your gun should only need regular yearly oiling.
Now after redoing the trigger assembly i see it is my fault for placing the gun on the sand whilst getting my other gear on and loading my daughters gun, etc.... I will now be more careful and try not to get any sand near the mechanisms of my guns, as i am sure that is why i got a leak in the trigger O ring....

 

[popgun pete]

Well a single grain of sand jammed in your gun moving back and forward with each loading and subsequent shooting will carve through the barrel anodizing as sand is often quartz. Seals keep saltwater out, but not if a sand grain has cut a pathway in your gun, or worse. Plastic will easily be scratched by sand, if sand grains are embedded in plastic then you convert that element to a sanding block which will do damage to the precision surfaces in your gun. I suggest people hose their guns down first and then throw them in a tub, sand often needs blowing off with a jet, nothing too strong of course or you may take the stickers off (not really of a concern though they do come off eventually). The longer soak is to get saltwater out of crevices using dilution.

This is the Asso most think of, it was around for decades and is very similar to the first Sten. The one shown here is the baby ASSO 30, a pretty useless gun in most situations. You need a 40 plus at least, such as a Mares Miniministen, to shoot anything worthwhile.

 

[popgun pete]

More here on the early Seac Sub Asso.

Seac Asso: story of a success - Apnea Passion Magazine

It has not been the first pneumatic speagun, but the Asso is a historic model by Seac, sold in very high numbers. It is not the most revolutionary, but the Seac Asso has surely been always excellent in strength and reliability, characteristics that have determined its commercial success. The...

apneapassion.com

The Asso above was a virtual clone of Mares original 1967 Sten, a gun that made floating after the shot pneumatic guns a reality, previously pneumatic guns were all sinkers.

Note only the Sten guns in this advert from the late sixties are floaters, the Titan guns weigh a ton with their thick wall tanks and the rear tank classic layout guns have insufficient water displacement to be floaters.

 

[JonathanT]

Well a single grain of sand jammed in your gun moving back and forward with each loading and subsequent shooting will carve through the barrel anodizing as sand is often quartz. Seals keep saltwater out, but not if a sand grain has cut a pathway in your gun, or worse. Plastic will easily be scratched by sand, if sand grains are embedded in plastic then you convert that element to a sanding block which will do damage to the precision surfaces in your gun.

This is the Asso most think of, it was around for decades and is very similar to the first Sten. The one shown here is the baby ASSO 30, a pretty useless gun in most situations. You need a 40 plus at least, such as a Mares Miniministen, to shoot anything worthwhile.
View attachment 59608

Yeah makes sense, I need to be more careful if i want my guns in Working order....

 

[popgun pete]

My guess is the ASSO UP uses less plastic to make the rear handle than the previous ASSO. Might not be a lot, but it adds up if you are making thousands of guns per year. The use of larger and angled muzzle relief ports is a consequence of lighter pistons slamming into the shock absorber than the metal versions used decades ago. Plastic pistons are much cheaper to make, as are integral tip shafts. Integral tip shafts date back to 1/4 inch diameter spears used in the original Tahitian band guns made by the islander locals, the spears were usually much longer than the guns, so a lot of overhang for better aiming precision. I remember people being intrigued by them in the late sixties. Then they were used in band guns and eventually pneumatic guns for shooting zippy fish up in the water column. Nailing fish on the bottom in reef structure will ruin your speartip, so a removable tip is best there.

 

[popgun pete]

A note on "O" ring damage, especially the tiny trigger transmission pin ring. They can look OK to the naked eye, but under a loupe you may see a knick or cut and that is enough to allow pressurized air to escape. A trap for the unwary is the imperfect sealing ring may hold air when you pump the gun up, but pull the trigger and the "O" ring twisting torsionally brings the cut into play as a leak path and the gun now begins leaking. I have had this happen on the power regulator shaft, so any time a used gun is pulled down I replace all the small rings. A gun that was guaranteed to give trouble was the Mares Mirage, compounded by the fact that "O" ring kits are almost non -existent for it, although it shares some rings with other models.

There is an "O" ring listing for Mares guns here, a search will find it.

In fact it appears a few times, Seac Sub as well in the first one shown here.

O-rings (especially trigger pin)

Slightly updated O-ring schematic for the Seac Hunter. Info is still the same as before, but I am listing the possible alternatives for the main barrel seals. (From earlier in this thread, I can see Pete says that for older Mares' guns he did try the exact metric alternative I am listing and it...

forums.deeperblue.com

Difficulty determining correct o-rings for older Mares pneumatics

I dug into an old Frontiersman that has been sitting in my garage for years, but have been unsuccessful in determing which o-rings to use for the tank, which I gather are metric. The existing o-rings have hardened to plastic, so I don't trust their current dimensions. I generally find that...

forums.deeperblue.com

Later Cyrano Evo in orange and black and blue and black Evo that replaced it with a 13 mm inner barrel version added to the 11 mm inner barrel models. The Evo was a dud, although it can be fixed. Synchronisation problems busted their plastic line release levers. A gun made after the old timers in the company who knew better had either retired or passed on, if they had still been around their advice would have been NO!!

https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/mares-cyrano-parts-diagram-annotated.115199/

 

[Relaxmodapk]

Instead of a chisel, I suggest using a socket wrench or a similar tool that fits securely around the port. Once you have access to the rear air filling port, you can refill the speargun with air and then submerge it in water to check for any air bubbles. If you observe bubbles coming from a specific area, it's likely that you've found the source of the air leak. If you didn't find any visible damage, it's possible that the issue could be with the rear air filling port or another part of the gun. world cricket championship 3

 

[popgun pete]

Instead of a chisel, I suggest using a socket wrench or a similar tool that fits securely around the port. Once you have access to the rear air filling port, you can refill the speargun with air and then submerge it in water to check for any air bubbles. If you observe bubbles coming from a specific area, it's likely that you've found the source of the air leak. If you didn't find any visible damage, it's possible that the issue could be with the rear air filling port or another part of the gun. world cricket championship 3

May pay to read further up the page.