Serious free dive questions

[Mungdiver]

So I would consider myself on the beginner side of free doing and I'm just starting to really get into it, and I have some questions

I use a different equalizing technique than valsalva and frenzel. I just call it the jaw pop, since that basically what it is. It's the same thing as poping your ears when you yawn from a change in elevation. Is there an actual name for this technique? And since I've only used it up to 10m can I use it at 10+m depth?

I also just learned about being able to hold your breath into contractions. Is there any danger to practicing into the contractions multiple times In a day?

And I think this is my final question. What do you guys consider you breath hold time? Do you stop the clock at the beginning of the contractions or do you stop it when you think your about to pass out?

 

[Azrael3000]

I use a different equalizing technique than valsalva and frenzel. I just call it the jaw pop, since that basically what it is. It's the same thing as poping your ears when you yawn from a change in elevation. Is there an actual name for this technique?

Yes. It is normally called voluntary tube opening and often the french acronym BTV is used. You can find quite a few threads about it on this forum. Some people can do it nearly naturally whereas others, like me, need to train it quite hard.

And since I've only used it up to 10m can I use it at 10+m depth?

Don't know the answer to this one. I suspect that you should be fine at least until 20 meters.

I also just learned about being able to hold your breath into contractions. Is there any danger to practicing into the contractions multiple times In a day?

Normally not. However, as with every sport stretching is important to avoid damage. So I prefer to do intercostal and diaphragm stretches before any freediving activity.

And I think this is my final question. What do you guys consider you breath hold time? Do you stop the clock at the beginning of the contractions or do you stop it when you think your about to pass out?

The clock is stopped once you start breathing again.

Finally, some advice, take a course. All your questions will be answered there and you will find some new questions that you haven't even thought of yet. The value of a course can't really be estimated high enough.

 

[Mungdiver]

Ahh that makes me feel really happy about that(btv). I feel kind I like an idiot to though because right after I posted this I found the thread about it... Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely be looking to see if I can take some classes and see if I can get some more info on the btv, since I want to learn more about it before I use it.

 

[Kars]

Just one addition.

In regard to daily going into contractions.
Like swimming, the workout is more taxing then we estimate when we're still in the water.
With freediving this is even stronger. For beginners it may be a bit less, because you cannot go far and deep into lactic acidity phase yet. Because freediving into lactic phase is so taxing one really needs to take care of oneself well in order to be able to continue. Drink, eat sleep well. When you get good you'll find you can go further in exchange of a fewer number of dives. On the other hand you'll also learn that you can do today's dives with longer dive-times all day with ease.

In summery:
- become aware of your bodies need for recovery, so you do not wear yourself out.

 

[Mungdiver]

What's the lactic acidity phase?

 

[Kars]

Ok..

One can say a freedive has 2 phases, the easy and the struggle phase. The easy is where everything is.. easy, nice, fluid etc. The struggle phase is when your urge to breath appears until you take your first breath. The appearance of the urge to breath often coincides with a change of how the muscle produces work. Ignoring the first 15sec ATP phase, the second phase is the well known aerobic phase, herein the muscles use 02 to produce CO2 and work. Then about when the struggle phase begins (varies for many people) the muscles go on using a different system producing labour and Lactic Acid. This is the burning feeling of muscles hurting after a long sprint. When you hold your breath this can be accelerated because the body has not got the needed O2 to provide the muscles.

I'm sure you'll be amazed and thrilled to do a freediving course, there is an ocean of experience and understanding to explore my friend!

 

[hteas]

If they are still around, the San Diego Freedivers would be a great source for help, information, and dive buddies. Ask at the dive shops

 

[Mungdiver]

So would it be dangerous or cause damage If I were to do apnea walks every day or multiple times a day?

And I've been trying to find more about the lactic acid build up, but haven't found anything. I don't even know where to start with that question.

I did read something about how your supposed to take your snorkel out when you go under, but what's the point of that? I almost never take it out when I go under.

 

[Simos]

I use the 'jaw drop' (BTV) too most of the time - for me it does get harder to do deeper than 10m but if I use the back of my tongue (frenzel) to help push air in it does work deeper.

I suspect it's down to practice and also depends on how 'good' your ears are to a degree - my right ear has always been quite difficult to equalise and it's usually what gives first when doing BTV so I don't know what depth I would have faced issues with BTV if I had two left ears lol

 

[Mungdiver]

Yet another good question. So I see a lot of videos of people doing rapid accents. Is there anything they do to prevent shallow water black out? Does squizing your lungs on accent help keep them over pressure enought to prevent that? And this might just be me but if I valsalva down to 10m I can't go up too fast or my ears hurt. Could I do a reverse frenzel to depressurize me ears?

 

[Kars]

Mungdiver,

Lactic acid is not dangerous, it's tough to deal with and may wear you out. The 'danger' of this is that you start to dread apnea, freediving. So my advice is to be aware of it, eat, drink, sleep well, and know when to take a break/rest.

We freedivers take the snorkel out on deep dives for 2 reasons, safety and ease.
- safety , if we faint (Blackout) a snorkel increases the chance of water intake.
- ease, when we hit the surface after a long dive, we want to have certain, easy and immediate access to air. Purging a snorkel takes effort, coordination and with waves luck to do. It's not nice to inhale water, especially after a long deep dive when you really need that O2 fast.

 

[Mungdiver]

Hmm okay those are good to know. Thanks for that info!

 

[Kars]

(1) Yet another good question. So I see a lot of videos of people doing rapid accents. Is there anything they do to prevent shallow water black out? (2) Does squizing your lungs on accent help keep them over pressure enought to prevent that? And this might just be me but if I valsalva down to 10m I can't go up too fast or my ears hurt. (3) Could I do a reverse frenzel to depressurize me ears?

1, They do, by diving within their limit in terms of dive time and effort. Also they do not look up, this blocks the neck artery which induces a BO.

2, Are you talking about hook-breathing? Hook Breathing is a technique that aims to keep the bloodpressure high right after the dive, so enough 02 keeps flowing to the brain, until the new oxygenated blood arrives.

3, You appear to describe a near reverse block. I suggest drinking more water, sleep, eat and drink differently to minimise mucus formation. Also nose showers to clean up the nose. Normally the air will automatically flow back out of your Eustachian tubes and sinuses into your mask when ascending.
No technique needed at all.

In general, with more diving the 'ears' get more flexible and equalisation easier, faster and more reliable.

 

[Mungdiver]

I had no idea that looking up blocks blood flow. So now I'll try and keep that to a minimum.

And yes I just found a thread hook breathing. It's exactly what I was thinking. And I'm going to be using that now.

I'll also take your recommendations for my ears.

Thank you!

 

[Kars]

Please try to do a course, take weekend trip or vacation and learn from an instructor, you really learn heaps in days, saving you years of dangerous trial and error. The instructor will see things you have not even considered before, will increase comfort, divetime, depth and mostly safety. With him you can safely explore new stuff and your limits.

The highest priority should be to find a local buddy. You both should spend time learning to rescue each other, and how to keep an eye on each other. Shared fun is so much better, just like sharing beer.