Shooting and aiming for a fish

[Spearduck]

Hey guys,

1)I was wondering if you have any tips on how to shoot fish that are in holes or next to rocks. I was told not to shoot or else your spear will go blunt.

2)Also, is there a special technique for getting fish hidden in rocks? I have tons of seabream in my area and i would like to know what the technique is.

3)Also, when a fish is moving, do you shoot at it or in front of it?

Thank you

 

[ickledevil]

Hi Spearduck, everyone has their own techniques and tricks and you will no doubt find your own in time. Single best piece of advise I can give is for you to find an experienced buddy in your area, and dive dive dive. Try the find a buddy sections on these boards or any local clubs etc.
There is plenty of theory on the boards but nothing will compare to good specific local knowledge. It sounds like you are just starting out so there is a huge safety factor to consider make sure you take this into account in whatever you do, the hazards are there for us all but risk is significantly increased with inexperience.
Now thats done with here is what I do in the situations you mention..

1, Yep your spear will go blunt and too close or too powerful and you run the risk of it bouncing back at you as well.. for me, yes I still spear fish around rocks and on rocky bottoms. I accept that it will blunt my spear and plan on sharpening/replacing checking it accordingly I also try to change angle where possible to give me the best chance of not hitting anything hard, and also take into account what will happen if it bounces back. Some of this can be accommodated in gun choice as well, I have a stubby lower powered gun or two for when I'm specifically hunting in holes.
2, My 'special' technique is to look.. really is as simple as that. Be it in under or between I peer into all the holes, remembering fish often get places I wouldn't have imagined. However if I do find one I have to decide if it and a spear will come out the hole I am thinking of firing into, if not I leave it or search for another access point.
3, Depends how fast, this is something that can only come with practice. Sometimes i am aiming at it sometimes in front, to be honest I dont even register an aim point on a moving fish anymore it just happens but that is likely a side effect of my time shooting shotguns etc on dry land.

 

[growingupninja]

Most higher end spearguns allow you to screw on different tips. If I am hunting fish that hang in holes and rocky environments I use a heavy rock tip which is designed to bang into rocks. It still will need occasional sharpening but hitting rocks does not destroy the tip (as opposed to something like a slip tip which may become too bent to function after you've hit a rock wrong). A lot of smaller guns come with a single flopper on a aolid spear so you just keep sharpening it whenever it is too blunt. You will lose the gun or break the spear long before you file the tip down to the flopper.

The best thing for hole hunting is a short powerful gun with a reel in one hand and a narrow beam dive light in the other. Use the light to peak under ledges and deep into holes. Reel isn't mandatory but if you start looking in holes you can frequently shoot bigger fish than a short gun was meant for, and you need the reel to land large fish safely and keep a big fish from taking off with your gun.

Certain types of fish, mainly pelagics, have VERY fast reflexes. They will hear/feel your gun go off before the spear reaches them. Those fish you do have to lead, ie aim just ahead of the lip to hit the gill plate. Sea bream I do not think are one of them. Generally you want to hit the fish in in the head just behind the eyes or the gill plate. Two reasons--so you don't butcher and your filet and so you get a holding shot; many fish will be able tear the spear out of their body but if it has gone through bones and cartilage in their head they can't get away.

Oh yeah and be careful. Lots of not so nice things that come out at night, well you can guess where they hide out during the day? And try to find a club or some dive buddies.

 

[spaghetti]

Best weapon for shooting Mediterranean fish in holes (breams, moray eels, congers) has a trident as a tip (3 to 5 prongs). A single tip flopper shaft is not the best because:
1) in the hole there might be not enough room to pass the fish completely and let the flopper open.
2) trident has a greater "hit and hold" power than a single tip shaft on a short distance shot.
3) tridents tips are relatively cheap and can be easily replaced. Yet the "Mustad" type multipronger tips are very tough and will last for long even if shot against rocky walls many times again and again.-

Now talking of mediterranean seabreams. I'm talking of what we call striped common sargo bream (diplodus vulgaris), major sargo bream (diplodus sargus), big lips sargo (diplodus puntazzo): they are all fish that tend to hole up in:
-under the edges of isolated boulders
-under and in between a concentration of many boulders
-inside crevices between the basement of rocks large or small
-inside small holes (you'll be surprised how really tiny holes can host so many fish!!!).

Common approach and techniques:

where
you may at your option:
1a) investigate every single hole going continuously up and down like the needle of a sewing machine (it's a very physical type of hunting).
1b) choose only a few selected boulders or cracks that might inspire you. Ask yourself: where would I hide if I was a fish myself?
Sargos generally choose a preordered hole they may run into in case of danger, and they choose holes and rocks with a particular "look", so they can recognize it very quickly when they need to suddenly run into it.
They also tend to choose holes OR rocks as their permanent "dwelling", so also in this case the rock has to have a particular "look" to be dinstinguished from any other: for example an isolated rock in a flat bottom, a hole in a rocky floor with a brighter spot of rock, or right behind a bush of seaweed....
2) first briefly investigate if, besides the entrance hole, there might be any exit hole for them to escape from another side of the rock. In this case a buddy system is very productive to patrol both the entrance and the exit.
How
3a) approach the hole gently, trying to perform some brief "aspetto" laying one meter or so away from the hole: sometimes a fish will get out to see what's going on and....BANG!
3b) BUT if you have seen a frightened fish running into the hole escaping from outside, don't waste any time and quicly peep into the hole with your gun pointed to the inside, use a quick flash of your torch and shoot with no hesitation.
4) don't fall in the traps and tricks of these cunning buggers. Sometimes you may find very small sargos staying tranquil and motionless in front of a boulder: there might be a bigger one inside (the small ones feel protected by the big one, maybe).
Sometimes you'll see a single sargo exiting from the hole and running as hell towads open see: it's only a diversion to get your attention and drive you away from the hole where his "brothers" are hiding.
Sometimes you may watch into the hole and see no fish: maybe it's on the floor, laying down on his side to be less visible....cunning buggers.
5) weapons. Of course you need a short gun (to be handled into small holes) armed with a 3, 4 or 5 pronger tip. the 3 or 5 pronger is much better than a tahitian or hawaian tip with flopper.
First because you won't have much time and visibility to aim and the 5 pronger will give more hitting "surface" than a single tip.
Second because, the hole might have not enough room to let the speartip pass completely through the fish, and in this case the flopper won't open and you won't be able to hold the fish.
6) torch. You may want to use a torch. Not necessarily one of those superpowerful lamps you use for night dives, but a smaller handy spearfishing flashlight such as the Omer Moonlight, Omer Minimicra, Cressi Lucciola et cetera.
When approaching holed up sargos, take care that only a very brief flash will be enough: the sudden ray of light scares these fish a lot. So be very concentrated, flash briefly while you gun is already aimed inside, and shoot as quick as you can.
You may also give up the use of a lamp: if you look into the hole for a little while, your eyes will naturally adjust to give you a better vision in the dark and maybe this will be enough.

...Hum, anymore questions?

 

[spaghetti]

Hey guys,


3)Also, when a fish is moving, do you shoot at it or in front of it?

Thank you

When possible, aim in front to his face between the eyes. The fish will turn and you'll het it behind the gills (killer shot). Don't forget that it takes time for the shaft to get on target. It's a fraction of second, but that's exaclty how it takes for a fish to turn.

 

[landshark sa]

1) Slow down your gun. It does however depend on what type of gun you are using when trying this. For obvious reasons some guns will not work, for example a pneumatic gun, but works well with Euro style guns were you have access to the bands / spear. What I do when hunting in very close proximity to rocks or in caves is, before taking the shot I grab the rubber, spear and barrel and press down firmly. This will slow down the spear a bit and will save a bet and possibly a blunt spear.

Things to keep in mind though, only do this when wearing gloves, keep your fingers out of the way of fast moving spear / band and don't try it will solid bridles / wishbones.

2) When assessing a potential cave I will usually try and not approach it from the front as fish will most probably move deeper into the cave if they see me. So I try and approach from the back or side and then have peep inside. This helps a lot as your head will be very close to the ambient light level inside the cave and you will be able to spot fish easier once your eyes have adjusted to the level of light.

3) In caves I always aim at the fish - the head if it's visible. You don't have to compensate for a fish that has loads of space around it to which it can dart and most times you will be quite close to the fish so the spear doesn't have to travel very far.

 

[growingupninja]

1) Slow down your gun. It does however depend on what type of gun you are using when trying this. For obvious reasons some guns will not work, for example a pneumatic gun, but works well with Euro style guns were you have access to the bands / spear. What I do when hunting in very close proximity to rocks or in caves is, before taking the shot I grab the rubber, spear and barrel and press down firmly. This will slow down the spear a bit and will save a bet and possibly a blunt spear.

Things to keep in mind though, only do this when wearing gloves, keep your fingers out of the way of fast moving spear / band and don't try it will solid bridles / wishbones..

I have never seen a gun, euro or otherwise, where this would be possible without some risk of being tangled in the line or getting some part of my anatomy shredded by the rubbers or catch on the spear. Not saying you don't have a gun or way to make this work but typically to slow down a gun I load fewer bands or (rarely) let the recoil of the gun push my arm back, although to do so sacrifices accuracy. I don't have actual stats but I think a large number of speargun related injuries involve the rubbers, usually when they break.

 

[landshark sa]

I have never seen a gun, euro or otherwise, where this would be possible without some risk of being tangled in the line or getting some part of my anatomy shredded by the rubbers or catch on the spear. Not saying you don't have a gun or way to make this work

Hi growingupninja,

As I said in my post, the technique will depend on what type of gun you use. For example I have a woody mid handled Euro gun but the gun utilises loading fins on the spear which means that there is no way that one could grab the barrel in order to choke the gun. It does however work really well on my Rabitech and Rob Allen rail guns.

Below a video example of choking a gun:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXH0ZC4IdPE#"]Spearfishing video clip - taking a tasslefish in a cave - YouTube[/ame]

typically to slow down a gun I load fewer bands or (rarely) let the recoil of the gun push my arm back, although to do so sacrifices accuracy. I don't have actual stats but I think a large number of speargun related injuries involve the rubbers, usually when they break.

If I know I will be hunting mostly in caves, I always use a single band gun - two bands will be too powerful. Also, as you pointed out, allowing your hand / arm to take up recoil will lead to inaccurate shots, especially in caves where one may be contorted into a funny position due to structure or the location of a fish in the cave.

 

[growingupninja]

Thanks for posting the vid...

 

[Mr. X]

1) Slow down your gun. ...What I do when hunting in very close proximity to rocks or in caves is, before taking the shot I grab the rubber, spear and barrel and press down firmly. This will slow down the spear a bit and will save a bet and possibly a blunt spear.
...

Choking the rubbers, interesting idea and the video makes it clear - thanks for sharing that.

The multi-prong spears suggested by Spaghetti, usually on short "cave guns" are usually recommended for this type of activity - if you go out specifically intending to do this. Also good for wrecks I'm told (be careful out there); apparently multi-prongs tend to paralyze the fish - which may stop you getting dangerous tangles. I believe even RA make cave guns as special orders. Apnea.co.uk used to carry one or two such models (possibly by Imersion). However, I normally use a 75cm gun for pretty much everything these days so, as IckleDevil already said, I'd probably just assess the shot, try to find a favourable angle quickly and squeeze the trigger, or not.

I'll definitely consider the choking technique mentioned above - as I switched the metal wishbone on my lovely Omer XXV 75 for soft dyneema.