Sigalsub Shafts Ship with Cone?

[DiveHacker]

Does anyone happen to know if this shaft linked below ships with a cone installed? I have heard mixed reports, but I know the photo shows no cone.

Sigalsub just posted a photo of these shafts on their facebook page and they were all equipped with cones, so maybe all these shafts are going out with cones now?

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www.scubastore.com

 

[Diving Gecko]

I’ve bought quite a lot of those. If the description says it includes a cone then all the ones I have received have indeed had the cone. And the pics have never been right. Not for years.


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[DiveHacker]

I’ve bought quite a lot of those. If the description says it includes a cone then all the ones I have received have indeed had the cone. And the pics have never been right. Not for years.


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Thanks. Where did you buy yours? Scubastore, or probably many places?

 

[Diving Gecko]

Scubastore only. Hence why I mentioned the pic there has never been correct;-). Mine has been for airguns though. But still, same issue with text description and pics not matching. You’ll need to tune the floppers but for small and medium size fish I like these shafts and sigal has by far the best selection for air guns. That said, for a band gun shaft I’d probably get a Salvi capture with the small fins over a sigal shaft. Those new Capture shaft are really nicely done and the two I have used have been ultra precise.


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[DiveHacker]

Scubastore only. Hence why I mentioned the pic there has never been correct;-). Mine has been for airguns though. But still, same issue with text description and pics not matching. You’ll need to tune the floppers but for small and medium size fish I like these shafts and sigal has by far the best selection for air guns. That said, for a band gun shaft I’d probably get a Salvi capture with the small fins over a sigal shaft. Those new Capture shaft are really nicely done and the two I have used have been ultra precise.


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Those look real nice. You may have just changed my mind. The "pacific atlantis" shafts look nice too.

I have a reverse mechanism Meandros 105 gun. Will the 140 shafts fit right? it seems the flopper could be close to engaging with the front tip of the gun. My stock shaft is 145, and I really do not wanna go to a 150 shaft.

 

[Diving Gecko]

I don’t know about the meandros... as for the Atlantis I might be mistaken but I think the floppers are thicker and not countersunk. So, I think the Capture is more of medium size fish spear and the Atlantis is more of a small BW shaft for tougher fish. (I have two Atlantis shafts for a big airgun and they didn’t have countersunk floppers so guess it would be the same for the band versions). I think the Atlantis barn may also be about 10mm longer but not sure. Maybe on a 105 gun you’re still not shooting fish that will easily wreck your spear so perhaps the Capture one is still alright?


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[DiveHacker]

I am guessing almost all my fish will be small medium, but I could run into larger stuff like cobia easily I would think here in Thailand. I will be on month long trips i really would rather nothing fails on. I am sure either one will do as long as I have a backup, and my trusty pole spear too. Thanks though I am most likely gonna grab one of these salvimars.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Just to be perfectly clear - I don’t think your original link will include a cone. It has to specifically mention it in the description and then sometimes the pics will still be wrong. That said, scubastore sells the cones separately too. Just keep in mind that you can’t use a Sigal cone on other shafts than sigal. The reason being the sigal shafts are slightly turned down (0.15mm or so) in front of the barb. This makes a 7mm shaft about 6.85mm for the part of it in front of the barb and creates a nice little lip for the cone to rest against so there’s no risk of it migrating backwards and interfering with the barb.

But... they have Salvi cones listed too and those are a regular 7mm bore for their designated 7mm size. (They both have a range of sizes, not just 7mm).


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[DiveHacker]

Just to be perfectly clear - I don’t think your original link will include a cone. It has to specifically mention it in the description and then sometimes the pics will still be wrong. That said, scubastore sells the cones separately too. Just keep in mind that you can’t use a Sigal cone on other shafts than sigal. The reason being the sigal shafts are slightly turned down (0.15mm or so) in front of the barb. This makes a 7mm shaft about 6.85mm for the part of it in front of the barb and creates a nice little lip for the cone to rest against so there’s no risk of it migrating backwards and interfering with the barb.

But... they have Salvi cones listed too and those are a regular 7mm bore for their designated 7mm size. (They both have a range of sizes, not just 7mm).


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Thanks for all the help.

Have you felt like those "HRC" shafts by sigalsub are better than the other sigalsub "normal" shafts they have?

 

[Diving Gecko]

You’re welcome.
I’ve only ever tried the non-hrc labelled ones but I actually think they could be the same... I emailed Sigal some years ago and somehow back then, iirc, I feel like they just had one (good) steel they used. Eg. my shafts has the same golden surface from the heat treatment as the hrc one despite looking silver in the pics. But you could shoot them an email. Back then they were very helpful.

Honestly, the 17-4ph and similar stainless steels are incredibly close to each other in strength and bending characteristics. What matters is whether the manufacturer has done a proper job on the heat treatment or not. There might be an UTS stainless used by a few US custom spear makers but I don’t think the Italian mass producers use that.

I’d venture a guess saying the sigal and Salvi are equally stiff - and I just liked the Salvi coz the sharkfins are really nicely finished and low profile and the barb pretty tough.

If you really want a bump in spear strength you have to go with a higher carbon content steel like the South African ones - eg RA and Spearmaster. But I’m not sure how optimized they are in terms of sharkfin size and placement. But they are tougher and once you’re on the road in Asia that might be worth it.


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[DiveHacker]

Thanks again.

I did email sigalsub, and they got back to me very quickly. I was asking about the cones though, and the rep confirmed the shafts come with no cone as default, and as you said unless the listing says it has a cone you probably wont get one installed by them from the factory.

What I will probably end up doing is grabbing one of these capture shafts and get a rob allen shaft down the line.

 

[DiveHacker]

I finally ordered the hrc sigalsub, and got a cone with it. I am gonna start a new thread on this topic i just cannot believe how difficult it is to get the exact shaft i want.

 

[Diving Gecko]

I finally ordered the hrc sigalsub, and got a cone with it. I am gonna start a new thread on this topic i just cannot believe how difficult it is to get the exact shaft i want.

So, I did a little reading myself and according to Sigal’s website, it seems the main difference is that the new HRC line use shark fins where’s the original (which they now call “Evolution”) use pins.
The steel seems to be the same in both lines of shafts, which I suspected earlier on.
The site actually doesn’t mentions cones as an option for the HRC shafts, only for the Evolution but your order proved that they can fit cones to both series.

So, just to check - the shaft you received has shark fins with holes in all of them? 1 rest tab and three rear fins?


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[DiveHacker]

So, I did a little reading myself and according to Sigal’s website, it seems the main difference is that the new HRC line use shark fins where’s the original (which they now call “Evolution”) use pins.
The steel seems to be the same in both lines of shafts, which I suspected earlier on.
The site actually doesn’t mentions cones as an option for the HRC shafts, only for the Evolution but your order proved that they can fit cones to both series.

So, just to check - the shaft you received has shark fins with holes in all of them? 1 rest tab and three rear fins?


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I have not got it yet but that is what the photo depicted. I wish they would pre cone all shafts but I am sure some don't like cones. I am so lazy i don't wanna have to deal with it.

I was reading your post in the other thread, the devoto shaft seems to be quite rough around the sharkfins. Another reason those captures look real nice, really wish they had a 145 option.

 

[Diving Gecko]

The cones on sigals are easy. They pretty much slide over the tip and rest against a small shoulder 1-2mm in front of the barb.
Well, sometimes they need a little persuasion but nothing bad and because of the step you don’t need to epoxy them in place or worry about them jamming the barb. I think they are the only ones doing it this way and it’s rather smart, actually.


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[DiveHacker]

The cones on sigals are easy. They pretty much slide over the tip and rest against a small shoulder 1-2mm in front of the barb.
Well, sometimes they need a little persuasion but nothing bad and because of the step you don’t need to epoxy them in place or worry about them jamming the barb. I think they are the only ones doing it this way and it’s rather smart, actually.


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Really, so you just force it on and it is done. I just grabbed some epoxy but would be happy to not have to use it.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Really, so you just force it on and it is done. I just grabbed some epoxy but would be happy to not have to use it.

Well, if you use the Sigal cones on Sigal shafts, then yes. But they are slightly undersized for their nominal designation. A 7mm shaft will have the part in front of the tip be something like 6.8-6.85 if I recall correctly. But the cone is made to match.
But you won’t have to do a thing - if you ordered it with a cone it should be installed already.
Btw, this stepped solution is also the reason why people who, for good reason, buy cones to mount on their non-Sigal shafts can’t get a Sigal cone to fit.


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[DiveHacker]

Well, if you use the Sigal cones on Sigal shafts, then yes. But they are slightly undersized for their nominal designation. A 7mm shaft will have the part in front of the tip be something like 6.8-6.85 if I recall correctly. But the cone is made to match.
But you won’t have to do a thing - if you ordered it with a cone it should be installed already.
Btw, this stepped solution is also the reason why people who, for good reason, buy cones to mount on their non-Sigal shafts can’t get a Sigal cone to fit.


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I ordered a cone separate. That's great I can just slide it on.

 

[Diving Gecko]

I ordered a cone separate. That's great I can just slide it on.

Oh. I see.
Like I mentioned, strangely enough Sigal’s website does not mention cones on their page for the HRC but they do for the older Evolution series. Maybe it’s just omitted by mistake - but you’ll be the Guinea pig on that.
If you have a set of calipers then check the front part of the shaft - if it’s 7mm spot on (if that’s what your ordered) it won’t take the cone. Or easier yet, just look for the little step in front of the barb.

I’ve retrofitted these to a handful of Sigal shafts and most where a friction fit where I could just push them on. One I had to grab with pliers and bang a little on the pliers with a hammer. You could still epoxy of just loctite them in place but you may very well not need to.


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[DiveHacker]

Oh. I see.
Like I mentioned, strangely enough Sigal’s website does not mention cones on their page for the HRC but they do for the older Evolution series. Maybe it’s just omitted by mistake - but you’ll be the Guinea pig on that.
If you have a set of calipers then check the front part of the shaft - if it’s 7mm spot on (if that’s what your ordered) it won’t take the cone. Or easier yet, just look for the little step in front of the barb.

I’ve retrofitted these to a handful of Sigal shafts and most where a friction fit where I could just push them on. One I had to grab with pliers and bang a little on the pliers with a hammer. You could still epoxy of just loctite them in place but you may very well not need to.


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Well you called it the sigal 7mm cone does not fit the sigal 7mm shaft. But then I have a salvimar 7mm cone too, and that was too small as well. I am over it, seriously. If it is this hard for manufactures to get this right and make it halfway clear i am over it.

Other than that though it is a beautiful shaft. Actually finished and burnished around the sharkfins much better than i expected.