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Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
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Since a thread was closed and I didn't get to respond: as a matter of fact I am and have been a site supporter for many years. 10 I think.
 
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Since a thread was closed and I didn't get to respond: as a matter of fact I am and have been a site supporter for many years. 10 I think.


Mate in my book and I’m pretty sure this will go for 99.9% of the Deeper Blue membership you have nothing to prove or respond to!
 
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Thanks Podge. I should add that I was staff here too on and off, but never stopped the meager few bucks of yearly support, as I've had such great conversations here. Also met top friendly people all over the world. Oh and organized a few spearo get togethers. That's worth a few beans I think. I don't post as much as 10 or 11 yrs ago but I'm still here learning and trying to contribute to a friendly atmosphere.
Now back to fiddling with my VFR 800!
Cheers,
Erik.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
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well, i stand corrected. good for you. its nice to see that you do actually contribute to this site monetarily. of course there was no way i could have known that,(nor will anyone else) since it doesnt say "site supporter" under your name. i wonder why is that? it seems it would be a good example to set for those many many people on here who dont bother to contribute anything to this site,(except their opinions, or to echo the opinions of others). maybe you dont care to brag or whatever, but i dont see it as that. seems to me all of us supporters, SHOULD put that star under their name to show the other cheapskates to ante up. one thing about me is: as quick as i am to tell you ,(or anyone else) when i think their wrong. i will also not hesitate to say when i am wrong,( the two MUST go hand in hand) because i have heard tons of people chime in from all over the globe to point out when they think i ,(or some one else may be wrong) but so rarely will anyone else admit when they are wrong. either way, good for you. hows the freediving or spearfishing in canada these days? what do you get like 2 months a year? or do you have a 10mil suit or something? i bet its cold on that motorcycle too!! i used to live in new york , but i left because it was preventing me from living my dreams. sounds like you may have the same problem. why stay there? cant do much diving or motorcycling in the snow, can you? well i guess its good for us here on db. it gives you more time to post on threads. and support this site? i notice that there are a whole lot of diving experts from cold places on this site, i wonder where all of you get so much expertise- being that you can only dive a few months a year? i dive atleast 2 days a week in the winter and up to 5 in the summer, and it never ceases to amaze me at how many people seem to know so much (or atleast think they do) when they live in places that mostly prevent them from diving most of the time. kindof reminds me of that movie about the jamaican bobsledding team. strange world we live in... i wonder if the worlds foremost experts of skiing and snowboarding are from sahara desert regions? before coming on db, i would say thats absurd. but now after talking with all of you, i guess i would find it quite believable now. either way, its good to hear that you're not as cheap as i thought you were.. sorry......jason
 
Now there's no reason to start picking on us northerners just because you are ignorant on the subject of wetsuits and drysuits. :martial

Erik and I have both been on this site for a long time. We are also both scuba instructors and have done our fare share of salvage jobs and commercial work. We both dive YEAR ROUND and have been at it for decades (31 years diving and 27 years as an instructor for me). Before kids I dove 5 days a week in the summer and 2 days a week in the winter. Between teaching and working on a charter boat (that can break 2' of ice) I have more time on some of the best shipwrecks in the world than I can count. If you knew a little bit about geography you would know that the western shore of Canada experiences some of it's best diving conditions during winter- when the algae dies off and the water clears.

Erik has put together more than couple dive trips for the divers on DB. People have traveled as far away as Florida to come and dive with him. I used to do the same thing (look up Freedive-a-palooza) and had divers from all over the country join me as well. I've had up to 30 freedivers at a time join me here- most of whom were DB members. You might take out one or two, but we organize full camping/diving weekends, and even week long trips.

Now, when it comes to your ignorance on dive gear. The reason we can dive year round is due to custom cut Elios wetsuits, under vests, 3-finger mitts, 5mm socks, Henderson ICE caps and containers of hot water to flush out suits out with. Eating things like coconut oil with our food helps to kick in our metabolism to keep us warm, and finding the fight kind of footpockets (I prefer C4 Mustangs) to keep our toes as warm as possible.

When it comes to scuba diving we both use drysuits with dry hoods, dry gloves, and Even full face masks. I also layer up capaline fleece under my thinsulate underwear and top it off by plugging in a bottle of argon into my drysuit for extra warmth- which is mandatory when trimix diving and helpful for any other type of winter diving. I've even had electric drysuit heaters plugged into my drysuits for extended deco-dives. I know that Erik is fond of his viking drysuit and AGA mask for commercial work- something that I like to use as well.

Like Erik, I used to be a moderator on this site as well, but got tired of dealing with petty problems that had nothing to do with diving.

Now, go back and use your search button to check out some of the thousands of posts that either of us have made over the past ten years before you so hastily judge that what you don't understand. I know many of my dive buddies would rip you a new one for being a warm water wimp, but I also know that each environment has it's own challenges. You have bath water to dive in and sharks, we have ice water and no sharks. We all have waves to deal with, but yours are made up of saltwater- which is a lot harder to clean off your gear at the end of the day the the icy, clean, fresh water that I have in the Great Lakes. Of course, Erik has waves, salt water, ice water, and sharks to deal with so he must be the toughest diver of the three of us. ;)

Jon
 

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another echoe from the northcountry. good for you guys. i was really only taking a lighthearted poke, but it seems i struck on a chord, why not take up skiing or snowboarding though? seems like alot of effort to go through to dive. and while you guys are undoudtedly experts in your area, you are FAR beyond the norm. i dont even like to scuba in my warm water because its too much effort with all the gear. i cant imagine putting all that crap on. i do it for fun, not to prove something, you are surely more dedicated than i am. oh wait, actually, not really, because i MOVED away from the snow and ice to pursue my dreams. i dont use my kids as an excuse. i have a son and he enjoys living in the keys almost as much as i do. your kids demand that you stay around the ice? they may actually enjoy it in the warm weather. sure its not your wife making those demands? i am familiar with custom suits btw: i have 2 of them. i still wouldnt take bobsledding advice from a jamaican . would you? everyone is the exception in their own mind. noone wants to be the rule. i myself am not a dive instructor, i have an advanced extreme diving certification, issued by myself to myself. its all i need to go diving, i cant wait to see who chimes in next, i wonder if there is some ashanti warrior in the sahara who is now offended at me saying something desparaging about his or her world class skiing expertise. in advance of that i was only kidding. lighten up guys.(or girls, wouldnt want to offend anyone else) i guess diving with dry suits is something i thought they only did for commercial or scientific reasons,sure not what i would expect to see on a snow covered lake= you in a suit. that must be a real spectacle. i used to live in new york, also spent one winter not far from wisc. border in illinois, funny, i never saw anyone scuba diving in a frozen lake, i must have blinked and missed it. since there are obviosly tons of you out there. how does freediving work with a drysuit? in key west alot of people have surfboards,but i dont think they get to use them much, but if you are dedicated enough- you can surf boat wakes or something, i dont know. frankly i cant imagine someone driving up from florida to scuba/ or frredive spearfish in canada. very strange indeed. since i have only been diving 19 years, i guess you got me beat. but to be honest i have learned more in the last 7 years living in key west than the previous 12 years, since i actually do it alot more now. exponentially more actually, but if anyone asked i had 12 years experience. that just means i STARTED 12 years before, it doesnt actually speak to experience, since that is gained by time spent underater, not by counting when you started and adding "years experience" to that # till the current date. the truth is i dive more than anyone i know with the exception of my dive buddies - who are on par with me. even the other key west people barely get out once a month =if that. and THAT IS the norm. once a month- barely that.if you really are diving in the ice and freedive spearfishing in it than you should have a tv show or something, that is impressive,(and i AM being serious about that! it really is a mazing= who would have thought? still i have to ask= why not just move if you like diving that much? believe it or not you could actually do it more if you did. dont be so offended, i'm just teasing man.
 
It just so happens that I have been skiing since I was 5. I spent 8 years on the National Ski Patrol and I'd put my telemarking skills up against anyone that I've ever met. I started my kids skiing when they were 3 and they enjoy both downhill and cross country. I think I'd miss the snow if I moved south. It's also the only time of year where we can escape the bugs that make the tropics so not fun.

I backed out of trimix diving when my kids were born because it was so expensive and I got tired of strapping on a half dozen tanks every time I wanted to dive. This is where freediving kicks in- all the challenge without all of the money or gear. I take my kids out the summer, but the wetsuits are a bit of a limiting factor for the time being. No reason to invest in a custom wetsuit that they will outgrow in 2 months time. When they get older we'll do more.

I don't know about my own TV show, but if you look through past issues of Hawaiian Skindiver you'll see photos that I've taken and articles that some of my dive buddies have written. Having grown up in snow country I don't fine these things extreme, just how we do things up here. Oh, and I've also got dozens of shipwreck photos published in a variety of books and magazines.

I don't know what part of Illinois you were stuck in, but there's a Great Lake right next to Chicago that you might have missed. They don't call it the "Third Coast" for nothing. We have more shipwrecks per square mile than the Bermuda Triangle. The cold fresh water preserves them to the point that even the bodies on the deeper ones don't decompose- they go through a process called soaponification. I can dive down on a 150 year old wooden schooner and still see the paint on the walls- something that wouldn't last 3 years down by you.

There's a reason that they call Whitefish Point the Valhalla of wreck diving. We can pick a time period and a type of vessel and dive it. Wrecks start on the beach and go as deep as you care to dive- the Edmunds Fitzgerald is sunk here and is sitting at 535'.

In the winter time we still go out on Lake Michigan to dive on the deeper wrecks- yes, we break ice out to the wreck site and tie on to dive all winter long. On a normal winter's day we only need to break ice out to the outer break wall and then go from there. When it's really cold we wait for the coal barges to go through first and break up the thick stuff for us. There is a reason that this place is considered the best wreck diving in the world. We hold 23% of the worlds freshwater supply and ships have been getting lost here since the 1600's. From what I understand, the Baltic would come in second.

Oh, since you mentioned surfing I'll let you in on a little secret. They just so happen to have a surf contest up here in the city of Sheboygan every fall. It's held out on Lake Michigan where we get real waves and real surf. The guys use drysuits to keep warm as November is usually the best time to surf. I don't long board, but I used to boogie board out there when I lived in Milwaukee- which is about 80 miles east of where I live now.

As far as moving down by you I think I'll pass. I've dove down there in the past and it was OK, but nothing to give up our standard of living for. I've also had a few friends move down there over the years and the truth of the matter is, your education system rots. One friend got a full time teaching job even though he never graduated from college. He had no idea what he was doing, but it seemed to pay better than his job at the surf shop so he took it. No way I want that for my kids. I also see that you have a 100 mile long oil slick coming your way, courtesy of BP, so I think I'd pass on that as well. Add to that the traffic, obesity rate, crime, pollution, and lack of decent biking and I think I'll stay where I'm at.

Just teasing of course. ;)

Jon
 
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ok i will agree about all of that except two things: the oil slick coming my way(not going to happen thanks to the gulf stream and eddys and all that) that one is debateable, i will concede, but so far so good, and considering bp gave out enough money to me and all my friends in recompense for the oil that never came, that me and my dive partner are haveing a new 27ft unsinkable cat built as we speak from the money we got. the second,(which isnt even close to debateable , since i HAVE been up in your zone. is the obesity thing. dream on dude= there are more pale fat asses in the cold north than in south florida by a LONG SHOT!! tell yourself that if it makes you feel better. down here you cant hide under 4 layers of winter clothing, plus we dont sit around all winter waiting for summer to come,(YOU may not, but once again you are the exception ,NOT the rule) the education system in florida overall does tend to suck, but the lowered bar has allowed my son to do quite well. plus like most areas, if you live in an affluent area, the schools are good , and if you live in the "hood" they suck. key west is VERY expensive, so the tax base is quite large and since there arent very many kids per capita, they have quite small class sizes, but very well paid teachers and nice new schools. so as taken as a whole, florida schools arent quite that good,( as compaered with ny, or cali. for instance (where i went to school) as a WHOLE. but kids dont go to a cross section of schools in the state, they go to one school, you just have to choose where that is carefully.i did. now i have the best of both worlds. plus there is always private schools,(if you got the dough) it doesnt seem to matter that much , since my son is a senior in high school. plus in key west, atleast i dont have to worry about hard drugs ,because we are so isolated here. the neaerest town with more than 5000 full time residents outside of key west is a 4 hour drive (miami) its all moot at this point since my son wants to be a prof. mma fighter. he trains 3 days a week in my ju jitsu class, 2 days boxing with the pros at the gym, and one day doing muay thai and kickboxing at another school. plus lifting weights at school. his workout ethic is amazing, i dont know where he gets it. i myself can only manage ju jitsu 3 days a week anymore. keeps me in shape though. i tell you, that kid amazes me. last week we had another kid from his school- (2nd place in the state last year wrestler) come in to the gym to challenge him on the mat because of some shit talking in school by the other kid, (prob. based on his outweighing my son by atleast 15 lbs or more) he got choked out in about 15 seconds, then in the rematch got his arm tweaked and let out a scream that made the whole gym stop what they were doing to see what happened. he didnt know how to tap out evidently. there wasnt a third match. and he wont be back.
 
Stop it guys..... this transplanted Yankee boy just got back from his rainy cold shore dive in freezing 54 degree water, You guys are making me shiver.
The last time I dove clear water through the ice I had my hockey skates on,:crutch

Now I going to see if I can drain the hot water tank.:t

Cheers, Don
 
Stop it guys..... this transplanted Yankee boy just got back from his rainy cold shore dive in freezing 54 degree water, You guys are making me shiver.
The last time I dove clear water through the ice I had my hockey skates on,:crutch

Now I going to see if I can drain the hot water tank.:t

Cheers, Don

did you manage to shoot anything?
 
rofl rofl rofl rofl

And they say pot is good for you.

pot? it kept clogging the syringes, but i will try again, if you say its good. i used to try to give myself a frying pan enema, but it kept falling back out after insertion. should i try the spaghetti pot then? that WILL be a tight fit. astroglide may help out a little.
 
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did you manage to shoot anything?

Took the fart gun to do some test shots, just popped some 4 lb Calicos for tacos . It was just a swim to stay in shape for next month when all hell should break lose on the big White Sea Bass.

Cheers, Don
 
My family and I went Disney World last November and I saw more 400 pound fat people cruising around on the Rascal scooters than I could count!rofl

Meanwhile, I live in Madison Wisconsin which is one of the top bicycling cities in the country. We're home to multiple bike manufacturers and one of the toughest ironman courses in the country. As a result the people I know around here are more likely to run a marathon during their mid life crisis than buy a sports car. You might have a point if you were stuck in a city like Green Bay, but not where I live.

As far as the freediving in a drysuit thing goes, it really depends upon the type of suit. With a Viking drysuit using the standard foam underwear (you won't know what I'm talking about, but the cold water divers will) I can make it down about 25' before the squeeze gets too tight to kick my legs. With something like a DUI TLS-350 (trilaminate drysuit) using some thick thinsulate underwear I Can get down 35' before I hit the same squeeze point. I own a set of Esclapez open-heel fins with spring straps to use with a drysuit. What I find to work even better in winter is a custom cut wetsuit. If the suit fits well I find I can get down 60' before the suit compresses enough to let any water in. I used to use a 6mm suit, but have since dropped down to a 5mm suit as my fingers and toes freeze out long before my body core so there's not much reason to go thicker than that.

You mentioned my wife and family so I thought I'd let you know that she's been diving since she was 12. I met her by working for her parent's dive shop and charter/salvage boat. She may not like cold water, but she is very comfortable in the water. National Geographic was in filming a special on my father-in-law last fall becuase of a wreck he discovered in 312' of water. Some other friends of our filmed it and identified it as a wooden steamer that was sunk in the late 1800's (Doty). Moving south just to dive would make me a laughing stock wimp within my own family. :blackeye

Hey Don, I did my instructor course out your way back in 84' and would like to get back out there again sometime. I've been out to Catalina a few times and my first ever ocean dive was off of Anacapa when I was 15. I have family in the San Diego area, but the last couple of times i was out visiting them La Jolla cove was closed due to pollution.

Jon
 
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LOL.yeah, true, disney is a joke for fitness, but in all fairness, those people were more than likely from the northern states, as we floridians rarely go there. also , orlando is north florida, which is mostly" hicks in the sticks", they talk slowly , =pretty much do everything slowly.and we do have nice tans,(or are wisc. people more tan, because of the snow reflection or something?) south florida is a different world. very ethnic,(mostly latin americans) miami in particular is absolutely full of good looking people. its the third modeling capitol of the world after paris and new york. prob. similar in comparison to green bay -in relation- to where you live. although one thing i must ask, how much biking goes on in the freezing winters? also dealing with sharks is statistically safe, but it does tend to mess with your head, especially after a run in with a mob of bull sharks come after your spearedfish and bump you from behind a couple of times, (i will still take it over frozen lakes- thank you very much) but its not exactly a relaxing day at the pool, in any case.
 
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This is one of my bikes decked out for winter riding. I have 2" wide carbide steel studded tires for riding in snow and on ice. I also have 700x44 studded tires on my cyclo cross bike, but I prefer this bike in winter becuase the disk brakes don't get as clogged with slush as the cantilever brakes do on my other bike.

I ride down to about 0F degrees. Others around here ride much lower than that and commute year round. Most of the hardcore guys ride Surly Pugslys (look it up if you want to see what a serious winter bike looks like) in the winter. Single speeds are often preferred in the winter because the drive trains are much more durable. I prefer my Xtracycle since it seems to stay upright better on the ice. It also has the carrying capacity so I can go grocery shopping and run errands around town.

When it gets really cold I find that ski goggles and my ski helmet work out better than my bike helmet and balaclava. They even make special handle bar gloves called "pogies" for winter riding. It's just not that hard core riders that ride all winter, but many of the people who work downtown and hate to find parking. I also see lots of teenagers biking to one of the lakes, ponds, or ice rinks after school with their ice skates and hockey sticks in hand.

Cold is just a state of mind and with the right gear it doesn't really stop you from enjoying the outdoors.

Jon
 

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Here's my other winter ride. It works out OK on ice, but flounders a bit in the fresh snow. The wider tires work better in the soft stuff, but are much slower when the pavement is dry, or just icy. "Horses for courses" as they say.

Planet Bike is only a couple of miles from my house and every day, all year round, I see the guy s who work there ride by on some pretty cool bikes- in some pretty cool weather. Trek is about 25 miles north east of here and a lot of the guys ride in from Madison. There's a reason this place has been on the top ten places of live in the US for some time. We also make it into the top outdoor towns to live in and the top bicycle cities in the US. The diving is better 80 miles east of here. One of the wrecks (Prinz Willam V) is consider one of the top 25 wrecks in the world and easily hits the top 10 in the USA. That's only one of the 800 wrecks sunk in Lake Michigan alone.

Jon
 

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huh, interesting, nice bikes. i thought the best wreck diving was in truk lagoon.I'm glad you like it so much there though. It wouldnt work for me ,since i have only scuba dove less than 5 times without a gun. Sightseeing underwater just doesnt do it for me.Especially if i have to put on extra gear and diving more than 160ft deep.To be honest, i wouldnt care if it was 10 feet deep and warm, i still dont care to just look.If i saw a trophy fish, i wouldnt be able to live with myself.But thats just me, I am a fanatic about spearfishing, so it wouldnt work for me at all,but it sounds slightly better than i thought it was.kudos to you for being such a trooper. personally i thought california was the mecca of bike riding also, with davis being the capitol city to do it there.(where i grew up). i guess i learned some new things from you. dont you think a place with some mountains might be a more interesting place to do it? Or is wisconsin all mountains ,(and i thought it was relatively flat, with some hills) to be honest i think you are just making the best of a pretty lame place. You are def. going well out of your way to convince me. I dont really feel the need to convince you of the same about key west. To you it would be pretty lame, with the coral reefs and pelagic fish.But without sub zero temperatures and 500 ft deep shipwrecks, what are we to do to pass the time.? how much weight do you have to wear with a dry suit to freedive? like 50lbs? is that a plus too? most people would consider that to be prohibitive. good for you. i'm still not visiting it there. who voted it the wreck diving/bike riding/ best place to live? i'm glad key west doesnt make that list, we have enough people there already. Some people call an islandsurrounded by coral reefs paradise, to you its the midwest? can you say that with a straight face? i wonder how many people from key west have gone to wisconsin on vacation? in the winter? i wonder how many have come from wisconsin to key west on vacation? i know 4 who moved there permanently from wisconsin. they must have been warm water pu#$ies, like me.
 
The best place to live was in a variety of magazines- Time, Money, etc.

The place doesn't have mountains like California, but we also don't have fires and earth quakes either- oh, and no one has died from a tsunami here in quite a while. Tallest place int he state is about 1800 ft. Lots of rolling hills which make for a more interesting ride than straight up and down a mountain. The largest XC ski race in the US is held here every winter (Birkebiner) and they use the same course in the summer for a 40 mile cross country mountain bike race. Lots of cyclo-cross races in the fall and quite a bit of bike touring and racing in the summer. If Chicago had won the 2016 Olympics they were going to run all of the mountain bike races just 20 miles to the west of here.

When it comes to weight belts and drysuits it's not as bad as you might think since we dive in FRESH water. I don't use any weight belt with a tank on (Steel tank made by PST in Milwaukee), and much less than I would if I were in the ocean. My summer suit (full 3mm) allows me to get away with 6 pounds if I go shallow and I don't need any weight if I dive FRC, or go deep. My winter suit varies depending upon the depth. I can get away with as little as 8 pounds going deep and might use as much as 20 pounds if diving full lung in the shallow weed beds next to shore.

The best part about it, at least when compared to California, is that you're not out doing it with a 1000 other people at the same time. I can remember teaching classes in LA where we had divers swimming out over us as we were swimming students back in. If you didn't get to the beach by 6 am you couldn't find a parking spot to unload gear.

There was a boat captain who used to work up here about 25 years ago. He ran wreck diving charters in the summer time out on Lake Michigan and spent his winters running charters down in Florida. He said that after a few months all the fish and coral look the same and he couldn't wait to get back up here. Granted, he didn't spearfish and that seems to make all the difference when it comes to making things interesting. Back in the day we used to be able to take artifacts off the wrecks, and that WAS interesting, but they passed some pretty strict laws on that back in about 88' or 89'. That part of the sport has totally died out around here.

I've been down to West Palm to dive before. The wrecks were beat up and this vis went from OK to crap over the week that I was there. It got down to 57F degrees one night and we couldn't find a restaurant to stay open and feed us. I guess that the think people don't eat when it gets that cold. I've also been down to Miami, for a PFI class about 10 years ago, and I stopped there to hop on a live aboard going to the Bahamas back in 91'. The Bahamas were nice, but not as warm as other places I've dove. Coral and fish are nice, but not a good enough reason to change one's whole life- especially at the rate they are dying off.

Glad you like it down there, but don't think that's the only place on Earth where people dive. Trux happens to live in a land-locked country that gets it's fair share of ice and snow, and yet they just happen to have one of the most active freediving communities around- not to mention a multiple world record holder. Erik lives near one of the most biologically diverse ocean habitats in the world. Just because it doesn't have coral doesn't mean it is lacking in colorful marine life. They also have things like 6-gill sharks, whales, orcas, seals, and other fun things to swim with. I seem to recall at least 2 world record freedivers coming from there as well. ;)

Jon
 
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