Small sport struck by death - Sauna world championships

[CEngelbrecht]

I don't know if this is directly applicable to this forum, but I couldn't help comparing this news to freediving.
There was a final in 'Sauna World Championships' (didn't know they had that) in a town in Finland this week. It ended tragically, when the two finalists had to carried out with severe burns after seven minutes of 110C sauna sitting. A Russian competitor died, and a Finnish competitor had severe burns and was in critical condition untill today.
I don't know anything about sauna sitting as a sport as such, but I noted that a key official organisation in Finland was quoted as having been angrily opposed to the competition format, again I'm reminded of freediving.
I don't know why I post about this, maybe just some warning against loss of imagination in orchestrating a small sport with inherent risks. Heaven knows what went wrong in the sauna thing.

BBC News - Finalist dies at World Sauna event in Finland
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna_World_Championships]World Sauna Championships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Finnish newspaper:
Poliisi ei epile rikosta saunomisen MM-kisoissa - HS.fi - Kotimaa

 

[Jouskari]

I live here and the newspapers have been all over it.

I myself also directly made the connection to freediving from this news. Small sport with physics that very few really understand how they affect the human body. The headlines has been pretty brutal and the main organizer sounded almost like he was crying when he was interviewed by phone on TV.

For some reason I also immideately thought of Guillame Nerys case in Okinawa ( I was 5 m from the entangled comp rope when they pulled it up ). It gives me the chills to think that with a bit less luck the freediving community could face the same headlines. And worst of all, nobody is even talking about how to avoid Nerys case again...

 

[CEngelbrecht]

They're writing pretty much about it in Denmark, Norway and Sweden as well. We sauna a lot up here, I guess.
To correct a detail in my first post, it was the Norwegian Sauna federation(Badstuforbundet), who was quoted as being opposed to the competition format for years, not a Finnish one.

I think freediving faced sort of the same headlines, what with Audrey Mestre's accident some years back. That these things can happen again is constantly beating me on the head.
Jouskari, I'm not familiar with the Okinawa incident you're talking about. Let's bring it up. What happened there?

 

[Jouskari]

Audrey Mestres accident was not sanctioned by AIDA and also a perfomance more similar to a stunt (very equipment and surface organization dependent ) and therefore perhaps not implicationg the roof organization so much (same with Loic :/ ). A death in an AIDA sanctioned competition would have hard implications on the whole competition organization and AIDA. Especially when there are clear flaws in the AIDA safety procedures as Guillames case shows.

It would be nice to have Guillames input, but as far as I heard afterwards this is what happened during his dive:

At 95 m depth an drifting approx. 30-40 mm anchorline crosses with the competition line and tangles around it. Guillame hits this rope while decending at pulls it, trying to reach the plate, to 98 m. He sees the rope (without goggles) that his lanyard has hit a rogue rope and decides to abort the dive for his own safety (was going for 102 m).

He acends and does the protocol and notifies the organization of the drifting rogue rope on the comp line. The comp line is pulled up (with lots of effort ) and sure enough a thick white rope is entagled around the plate. At this moment I really wish a had a camera as I´ve never seen anything like (and hope I never will again).

First reaction of the organization is to cut it loose but after a short converse they deside to pull it away from the comp zone with boat an buoy it to be pulled up later (good decision).

What scares me is that this case shows two things: Nobody actually knows the waters we dive in, and what if that line would have been a net or a fishing line with hooks?? The Counter Ballast wouldn´t have helped much...

On another thread I have suggested that online video from the plate and different stages of depth should be mandatory as a safety precation against deep BO:s. In this case, after reviewing the bottom cam material, the drifting rope had already been visible for several minutes before on comp line B. With a live video feed from a drop cam the dives could have been aborted and the problem taken care of.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

I concur with that, I have suggested UW video surveillance in the past as well, and I think it's the future for a million reasons. UW video could also be a boost for media coverage, as well as allowing direct verdict from judges, instead of late judge review of bottom videos when the main event is over.

But there are technical and (primarily) financial limitation here. As I understand, a big issue is that line feeded imagery through water has severe technical difficulties. And even if the investment for such a system is made by eg. AIDA, there has to be a system of transporting it to the venues of the world, and storing it safely between venues.

Not that all of that can't be funded by selling licenses to these images to the media, but I don't know how one negotiates with eg. ESPN or Eurosport, and without their funding such a setup can't get started. Also, I don't know if the traditional sports media is that keen on showing blackouts and such (outside of boxing, of course...).

 

[Jouskari]

The technical problems of deep water survailance has been solved years ago on the professional diving side.

e.g.

SeaViewer Underwater Video Cameras|Underwater camera|Waterproof Camera|Camera Accessories

SplashCam Underwater Video Cameras & Accessories|HD VIdeo|Underwater HD Cam

These systems are very portable (suitcase, and can be posted anywhere in the world for a small fee), only need a 12 v input and available from 1500 $ - >. Not a big buck for an organization like AIDA or even comp organization. Oh, and they´re rated for 600 ft or more...

 

[rxcnc2]

That the sad incidents that took away Audrey and Loic were not sanctioned by AIDA is an important legal point, but for the general public the only thing that matters is that it is the same sport. I am sure it happened to you, as it happened to me, that people will ask you how deep you can go and when you say "60m" they give you a sorry look because they saw on some documentary that a woman was going to 160m. We are all on the same boat when it comes to the media.

About U/W cameras, I am all for it and I hope some realistic solution can be found. However, it won't be as easy as it sounds, and there will always be unknowns. I remember that Mullins (?) actually disappeared from the sonar echo at the Blue Hole WC, and I don't think there was a quick reaction to that. Also remember Yasemin's incident and her narrow escape.

The truth is that unlike static or dynamic (which have non-zero but manageable risks), depth disciplines are constantly pushing up the probability of an accident and the asociated risk is increasing too. I wonder whether AIDA could put its mind and will at identifying new disciplines, equally challenging but perhaps less dangerous (and less expensive).

Going back to Sauna, any news what actually happened?

 

[Jouskari]

"Going back to Sauna, any news what actually happened? "

They compete in who can sit the longest in a 110 C degree sauna and have water thrown on the stone oven (to create even hotter steam) with 30 s intervals. The Russian guy (68) who died probably had a cardiac arrest due to core temperature rising beyond fatal, and the Finnish guy that survived had to be rushed to the ER and got severe burns to his upper body. ... this after 7 minutes in the sauna.

 

[jome]

By far am I no expert in this area, but the papers here seem to be of circulating the idea that it was not the heat per se, but the steam that caused the accident. There was so much water thrown on the stove (0.5 liters every 30 seconds) that the steam could have replaced air/oxygen enough to cause hypoxia and also the hot steam could have damaged the lungs and hindered gas exchange.

They are also speculating that the competitors had taken some kind of pain killers to withstand the heat, as they both had really severe burns on their skin, but still showed no sign of getting out.

In any case, a horrible accident that perhaps could have been avoided, but it's easy to say that in retrospect. Even though the event had it's ciritcs, up until the accident it was considered a harmless, if a bit crazy, event. And even though the organizers already said they will not organize the event again, there are already people stepping in to organize it next year...So go figure.

In freediving we've been pretty lucky so far, it's an unavoidable fact that one day we will have a fatality again in this sport (as it goes for any sport, since so far life has a 100% fatality rate). And when that hits the headlines there's not really anything you can say to the layman to convince them that "holding one's breath until death" is not a terribly stupid idea and should be banned. But at least here the officials seem to be a little calmer about it. Usually more concerned about the huge rise in other water-related fatalities in hot summers such as this, usually involving alcohol swimming and boating.

 

[ThomasB]

Heaven knows what went wrong in the sauna thing.

Security protocol failure.
The two guys blackedout inside the sauna and judges/officials realized it when it was too late. They should have had someone touching them every now and then to get the ok sign or maybe they should have just checked decently.

Ciao

Thomas

 

[Dinosaurus]

Security protocol failure.
The two guys blackedout inside the sauna and judges/officials realized it when it was too late. They should have had someone touching them every now and then to get the ok sign or maybe they should have just checked decently.

Ciao

Thomas

This was on todays newspaper about the incident. The organizers interrupted the finals after six minutes and opened the sauna doors. At that point those two tried to make their way of the sauna but they both blacked out. It was said that both of them were conscious by the time the sauna doors opened.

The other four competitors gave up between 3 to 4 minutes in full health.
It is a really strange thing indeed. Also there was some background info about the russian competitor. He got second last year and was heard boasting that he will win this year no matter what it takes. I bet they are going to find some substances in the autopsy. Because no one in their right mind could sustain such severe burns on their upper torso and just suck it up to be the sauna champion.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

What Finnish Internet newspapers would be good to monitor? I feel the need to keep track of this. Again, for freediving purposes.
(No, I don't read Finnish, but Google Translate can do most of it.)

 

[jome]

On a more serious side go for:
HS.fi
Aamulehti.fi

A little on the tabloid-side, but not so reserved on the latest gossip:
IS - Ilta-Sanomat
Iltalehti.fi | Suomen suurin uutispalvelu

I suppose eventually there will be a press-release of sorts in the police site:
Poliisi

 

[jome]

Here's a pretty grim update (if you can make sense of it with google):
IS: Saunakisassa kuolema lähellä jo vuosia - MTV3.fi - Uutiset - Kotimaa