Somali PIRATES revisited

[agbiv]

Hello to all. Just let you know right off the bat I'm really pissed at my government, your government, the limp**** UN, and any cowardly commercial ventures sailing in these waters. Our, meaning USA, ship was assaulted by pirates off of Somalia. Crew refused attack (refused in military terms) but had Capt. captured and is currently being held hostage while USS Bainbridge is on site attempting to free him/her or bring to successful conclusion.

WORLD WAKE UP! These PIRATES are just like those of old and through current times. These are thieves, murderers and plunderers. Wake up! Take action! So sorry their country is a cesspit. They made it that way.

Every ship, at least from the USA, and if your country doesn''t have the nads to do it, tough, should have an armed group aboard. Numbering at least 6 to stand watches during the crisis area. Night/IR vision, auto weapons, grenade launchers, and flare guns. When the PIRATES come near 1000 m flare'em and warn off. Inside 975 m blast'em out of the water. Make HUGE public notice that this is SOP for these shipping lanes. Don't back down....they're PIRATES. Feed them to the fishes.

I don't care if the armed guard is military or mercs. Pay them and save on fuel, ransom and most importantly innocent lives. Check weapons on board w/ harbor masters or POC military. Keep them under lock until in international waters.

Reasonable opposing views will be respectfully considered and file 13'ed.

Remember the Barbary PIRATES. Remember Black Bart. Remember Blackbeard. Deal with in similar manner.

 

[podge]

Chef, I’m an easy going sort of bloke but I’ll 2nd all of the above.

 

[Mr. X]

Hi Agbiv,

Some reports last night said the crew had regained control of the ship (harumph!). Although this morning it sounded like a couple of pirates got away with the US captain as hostage (the reports were disjointed) in a 20ft life boat. One pirate capture on board.

The problem with the Somali pirate situation is that is that they haven't killed anyone, yet, as far as I am aware -- although the media are stranglely silent on this important factor. Britain really has problems dealing with non-violence (thinking Gandhi, Mandella, Bobby Sands). They won't want to escalate things & make them worse -- the prefer to let peaceful people live in peace. If the pirates killed hostages, then I suspect we'd be down on them like a ton of bricks. Perhaps some powerful people now have financial interests in the venture -- they usually do?

They made one of the old time pirates a Governer in the Carribean (was it for Jamaica?). Didn't Blackbeard (Teach) , set himself up for a while as a gentleman farmer on mainland America?


I would have thought a US ship would be a risky target, even the civilians like "packing heat". I used to work with a US Army officer who was formerly a US Navy hostage extraction team leader, they mainly busted drug boats in the Carribean. He was pretty hard - the pirates wouldn't like being on the receiving end of a team of heavily armed people like him.

 

[Lazuli]

Trouble is the Somali pirates are also 'packing heat' or so I am led to believe. Interdicting and boarding a large oil tanker hundreds of miles off the Somali coast is a logistical feat in itself so these guys are obviously organised to some extent. We are not talking about dug-out canoes hererofl. I seem to remember talk of pirates with Rocket Propelled Grenades in the case of one tanker and if I was the captain the last thing I'd want is a firefight on board what is already a floating bomb (Of course the pirates are taking other cargo vessels also).

Asymmetric warfare (or entrepreneurship) at its finest.

 

[Jayramble]

Hmmm, Packing Heat or being armed is not going to solve the root cause!

Until the Somialn people have a functioning government, some of their citizens will engage in unlawful behaviour.

Having the world's nations invading their country to eradicate the piracy will only transfer the problem elsewhere!

Yes, I agree that we should be doing something, but their are enormous limitations and issues with arming non military ships, and we would be effectively requiring the ships personnel to 'go to war' when their primary function is to transport goods. Perhaps we should look at the number of vessels attacked vs. the number of vessels that transit the region. Then we might begin to understand the real issues.

The United Nations with support from the MENA countries, is the most appropriate organisation to make a difference, and we need to understand that there are many other factors and issues around the piracy topic.

THE REAL ISSUE should be ...
When is Somalia going to be come safe enough for us to go diving on all their beautiful costline, plus they have quite a few wrecks

 

[agbiv]

Blackbeard was defeated, had his head cut off and mounted on a pike. Black Bart was blasted to Hades by the RN. The Barbary Pirates were summarily defeated when they kept demanding more and more extorted tribute (which France, England and others were paying).

I am so sorry that the root cause of these PIRATES is a country in anarchy and negative economic conditions. Yes fixing that would make it better but when the coyote is cleaning out the chicken coop you don't need to understand and reason with it.

I am not advocating ARMED merchant ships. I clearly stated that during this crisis merchant carriers need ARMED GUARDS. a M-2 .50 cal MG will easily range effectively to 1000 m, twice what an RPG will. 40 mm grenades make great cross the bow splashes at that range. Come inside 1000 m and use 100% lethality. These PIRATES will understand that because they use the same tactics of fear.

As of now these scumbag PIRATES are holding 66 ships and 260, oops, 261 crew hostage. Our citizen just happens to be in a 8.5 m long lifeboat. The crew actually captured one PIRATE and forced the others off the ship. They were to trade the PIRATE for the Capt. but the PIRATES renigged on the deal and kept the Capt. - go figure, they didn't keep to the code.

Get real.

 

[Fondueset]

snipers :girlie

 

[abusingelves]

A friend of mine (He's not Israeli by the way) from the middle east, rightfully pointed out that there are many israeli ships going through the pirates teritory and are never attacked. Why? He reckons its because they know that the Israeli's wouldn't take any of their sh**e, storm the ship and toss the pirates overboard. :blackeye

I like to think that if i was being attacked at sea, i'd go down swinging!
With my Slingshot and a bag of marbles they'd never take me alive!rofl

 

[jay cluskey]

THE REAL ISSUE should be ...
When is Somalia going to be come safe enough for us to go diving on all their beautiful costline, plus they have quite a few wrecks

i agree with al but a lawless ungoverned country is the root cause of all of this .
if thease loony pirates are sorted properly sausage then they will be plenty more wrecks to visit real soon

 

[spaghetti]

I'm hearing through the grapevine that many US commercial ships do already carry some amazingly well trained security personnel on board...

RE. Somalia.
In the 3rd century before Christ, my grand-grand-grandfathers the ancient Romans had a similar problem with Illyric pirates in the Adriatic sea. First they sent ambassadors to the Queen of Illyric, so to try with diplomacy, which didn't work. Second, they sent two legions of angry, battle-hardened veterans to destroy Illyric towns, not before having slaugthered, raped, tortured and crucified every Illyric who couldn't run fast enough. Then, for 5 or 6 centuries to follow, the Romans had no more problems with piracy in the Adriatic Sea.

We? Today? We can't do that. We all know it would be insane.

We (the West) have tried to fix things there in Somalia in the early 90's. I have 3 hometown friends who served there when they were in the military (2 in the Para and 1 in "Bersaglieri" riflemen). The mission had been named "Restore hope", remember? We all know how and why it was a faliure.
Somali guerrillas, cowardly, used to attack UN patrols and checkpoints while mixed behind women and children. My friends swear that in no way they could shoot back without hitting women and children. Finally, Italian troops had to pick up their camps (and their dead comrades) and leave. Americans did the same shortly after.
The ancient Romans would be still there, placidly eating mellow grapes by the poolside. But we, we the modern civilized, we had to pull out in failure.

The only solution: snipers. :thankyou

 

[agbiv]

Sigh...I think I'll go find something slow, cook and eat it. :head

 

[spaghetti]

Sigh...I think I'll go find something slow, cook and eat it. :head

Why d'you sigh, Al? I do believe snipers ARE the solution, don't despair
(and I thought the image of the ancient Roman eating grape by the poolside would be a relaxing thought for you all )

 

[Marwan]

I think its not as simple as one word while we may all have our theories of could be the answer, i dont think you can provide the solution without understanding really whats going on. Im not claiming that i have the answer nor the understanding, just cautioning against following news media headlines to reach conclusions and in turn solutions...a lot of what im hearing in this thread reminds me of what happended (though to a less extent) in Iraq and afganistan, somebody called them an islamist state (for the life of me i dont know what this word means until now!) that their solution is to "instill democracy" so lets send the troops and do that....you think that solved the problem? i dont..i only used this as illustrative example..you need to understand the root cause to be able to reach a solution.. that root cause could be that somalia is poor, corrupt, lawless, is being used by another country as part of a bigger scheme, redirecting the eyes of the public away from other issues , i dont know....i have no clue.... but i wouldnt jump to conclusions on what needs to be done until i am damn sure i know whats wrong is all im saying..

 

[podge]

Why d'you sigh, Al? I do believe snipers ARE the solution, don't despair
(and I thought the image of the ancient Roman eating grape by the poolside would be a relaxing thought for you all )

Worked for me Spaggie, I just woke up with a pool of dribble all over the keyboard.rofl
Or it may have been the wine that I had with my evening meal.

 

[Fondueset]

I like to be naked with grapes.

 

[hyeparis]

Snipers could be part of solution, but it is not panacea. Somalian pirates are typically armed with grenade launchers and machine guns and attack on several fast boats launched from a mother ship. I would not risk several holes below the waterline if I were the captain. The naval grouping down there needs to be beefed up considerably to increase number of escorts. But this won't be panacea either. The root of the problem is on shore and has to be dealt with there. The example of Romans is irrelevant as using force alone would work only it is so extensive that it amounts to genocide to make Somalia a deserted land. So is the accusation of Somalian rebels of being cowards, many other groups across the world employ human shields in their fighting - this is how they equalize for their weakness vis-a-vis well-armed conventional armed forces - it is immoral and inhuman, but it is not sign of cowardice by itself. I would think of any rebel group that would come out and fight an open classic battle against a Western army unit as suicidally stupid. U.S authorities would do well looking back at their decision to unseat Islamic Courts Union with help of proxy - Eithiopia - before this union, in which truly extermist-radical Islamists played a rather marginal role, could finish the job of establishing control and restoring governance in what, my bet is, would have considerably diminished incidents of piracy.

 

[Fondueset]

I agree, Hyeparis.

The situation has two dimensions - tactical and strategic. Snipers - of course, are a matter of circumstance.

Personally I think we should support regimes that can govern - Islamic or otherwise - and get away from the, to put it mildly, dogmatic attitudes that have governed American international relations of late. Obviously we can't have state sponsored terrorism - but acts of war are much easier to deal with when they are launched from states.

I saw some government dude calling these pirates 'terrorists' - I was hoping we'd get away from that with the new administration - they are not terrorists - they are pirates. Pretty soon they'll be calling shoplifters terrorists.

At the same time - you've got to make the crime less appealing.

 

[josedesucre]

The Somali pirates wouldn't be too difficult to handle, if the USA were not so busy with other military problems. With satellites monitoring all marine activities in the area and a rapid deployment force based in an aircraft carrier, it should be possible to hit them pretty hard. I am thinking helicopters and armed speed boats like the ones the DEA uses against the narcos. France had two successful interventions last year with their heliported commandos.

 

[podge]

Drugs, that’s the answer.rofl
Roll up a heap of 3 skin reefers and give the lot to the pirates, they’ll be so chilled out that they wont want to go racing all over de place with dem noisy guns and de fast ass boats.

 

[BatRay]

Last I read, the American hostage tried to swim to safety but returned to his captors when they began firing machine guns. Wonder how far he would have gotten if he had been practicing his freediving?

Seriously though, with the escalation in aggressiveness by the pirates, it's only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt or killed due to their actions. In that case, we'd see how the tactics change in terms of dealing with piracy.