some assistance

[matt5]

well this is my first post on this forum and just looking through the posts ive learnt a lot more about freediving . its a sport thats always interested even me before i started scuba diving .and its great to see the amount of knowledge out there being shared... well to get the point i know that the two disciplines dont mix very well but as i make my living as a scuba instructor , diving most days and i do want to freedive i would like to find a way to combine the two safely . i understand that basically freedive before scuba is the safest and that freediving should be avoided after any scuba, deco or not.i am wondering if anyone can tell me if theres any "safe" way of freediving after scuba in the same day .do there exist tables for this and if so how trustworthy are they ?
so thats one query ive got another as regards improving my lung capacity and apnea ability. ive been quite a heavy smoker on and off for a long time and obviously its a digusting habit that is destroys my lungs . the little bit of freediving that i have done has already improved my lungs and helped cut down on my smoking .what i was really hoping was that some kind and patient soul out there would take the time to send me useful training techniques for beginners . ive looked at some sites for this but i dont understand much of the vocabulary .so if anyone could send me some easy to understand techniques and some structured guidelines for training i will be eternally grateful . i think its a beautiful sport that engages with the reality of the body in a way that scuba doesnt .
thanking you in advance matt

 

[John A]

Not to state the obvious, but,
1. You need to quit smoking, no questions;
2. Start a daily (weekly) cardo-vascular work-out regiment, walking, biking, ect.;
Those two changes alone will improve your performance. Until you do the above, don’t worry about technique.

As for freediving after a scuba dive(s), it depends on the profiles of both and your overall conditioning. 2 60’ dives followed by some freediving in 20’ of water should not be an issue, or are we talking about 200’ trimix dive followed by some freediving to 60’-100’ of water??? I never did any freediving after a mix dive, but have almost always followed recreational dives with some shallow freediving without ill effect, but that is me. Enjoy.

John

 

[Cliff Etzel]

I have to disagree with you on some points, John A.

NEVER freedive after scuba diving. No If, And's, or But's.

DCI is a much higher risk. Freediving should be done first and then Scuba. Any reputable training agency will espouse this - Ask the members of PFD or F.R.E.E. and I am sure they will concur.

 

[efattah]

Concerning smoking and freediving, smoking has a minor effect on 'single' breath-holds. It has a major effect in recovery between dives. As an example, if your purpose was to do just one deep freedive in one day, smoking would have an effect, but a smaller one. If you wanted to do repeated dives, smoking would have a major effect, because it prevents the air transfer needed to reoxygenate after a dive.

Many of the expert french freedivers smoke. The longest breath-hold I ever heard of by someone who smoked regularly was 7'30" by Claude Chapuis. However, I would guess that his recovery between repeated dives would be poor.

 

[John A]

I have to disagree with you on some points, John A.

NEVER freedive after scuba diving. No If, And's, or But's.

DCI is a much higher risk. Freediving should be done first and then Scuba. Any reputable training agency will espouse this - Ask the members of PFD or F.R.E.E. and I am sure they will concur.

Your point is well taken and I did not claim any training agency affiliation, just what I have done since 1975, without any ill effect.

Clearly there are risks to Freediving after SCUBA, but if you are going to make a blanket statement like that, you should also include bounce dives (to free the anchor, ect) and for that matter any repetitive dive. All are doing basically the same thing to your body, crushing those pesky micro bubbles and possibly letting them get into those areas of the body that do not like bubbles.

My advise to anyone entering an “alien” environment is to understand the underlying physics and risks and make your own decisions. Not arguing, I just hate the word “never”.

John

 

[immerlustig]

hi

about freediving after scuba

As far as I am aware there are no tables to calculate n2 absorbtion during a freedive. According to current decompression theory a freedive after a scuba dive will increase the risk of dcs. How big that risk is nobody knows. But since there is obviously some risk, however small, I side with cliff and not recommend freediving after scuba diving at all. Wait until you are desaturated or at least until the end of your no-fly time.

about smoking

Try to avoid smoking at least 1-2 hours before and after freediving. You will notice how different (read: much better) breathing feels. This helped me in quitting that habbit within a week or so. i never looked back.

Regarding training

quote:” Start a daily (weekly) cardio-vascular work-out regimen, walking, biking, ect.; Those two changes alone will improve your performance. Until you do the above, don’t worry about technique.”

I would say that technique should be one of your major concerns . Exercise and a healthy life style will of course be of great benefit as well. But bad technique cannot be compensated with good fitness. Just my opinion.

Hope that helps some

roland

 

[DeepThought]

I agree with Roland and Cliff regarding freediving post-scuba. There's no research about the long-term effect of such a thing, microbubbles might be doing bone or nerve damage that will never be discovered or will apear only in old age. People's physiology also work differently, someone can get away with it for 30 years while someone else can get DCS from within-talbe-limit scuba diving with no apparent physiology flaw. I don't think it's worth the gamble.

 

[subaquaticus]

Many of the expert french freedivers smoke. The longest breath-hold I ever heard of by someone who smoked regularly was 7'30" by Claude Chapuis. However, I would guess that his recovery between repeated dives would be poor.

very interesting...

 

[samdive]

on freediving post scuba...

I got bent freediving several times to 15m - 16 hours after a 40m scuba dive a couple of years ago, not much fun....

My doctors at the Diving Diseases and Research Centre spent some time mulling this over and eventually came up with - yes you guessed it - don't freedive until your computer is clear (ie you have desaturated). PADI Int have now accepted this advice and pass it on to anyone who asks - with a freedive being defined in that context (totally arbitrarily I think) as anything below 6m. It is also what we teach on the AIDA UK Courses - and if you don't have a computer, treat it like flying and use those guidelines

Sam

 

[John A]

on freediving post scuba...

I got bent freediving several times to 15m - 16 hours after a 40m scuba dive a couple of years ago, not much fun....

My doctors at the Diving Diseases and Research Centre spent some time mulling this over and eventually came up with - yes you guessed it - don't freedive until your computer is clear (ie you have desaturated). PADI Int have now accepted this advice and pass it on to anyone who asks - with a freedive being defined in that context (totally arbitrarily I think) as anything below 6m. It is also what we teach on the AIDA UK Courses - and if you don't have a computer, treat it like flying and use those guidelines

Sam

Sam,
If you remember, what was your profile of the SCUBA dive(s) prior to the "bend"; was it a Type 1 or 2; have your ever been tested for a PFO; was there relief upon decsent in the chamber?
I know that is a lot of questions but I find it very odd (I am no expert) that after a 16 hr SI that you would take a "hit". Did your doctors ever consider that you had a subclinical "hit" that the freediving exasperated?

John