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Spearfishing - are we under threat?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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foxfish

Silver Smoker
Dec 31, 2005
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Due to some of the content of another thread, I though we might try to find out if spearfishing is under the threat of legislation?

Personally I feel spearfishing has always been under threat but, up until now, at least in the UK we have been left pretty much alone.
Now, however, we are living in a different World than say 20 years ago when the sea was full of fish & everyone new someone with a gun, firearm or shotgun!

My point is - it would not take much to see the government suggesting legislations in various forms ranging from licensing guns to totally banning spearfishing!
Where do we stand on these issues? Who is there to offer support if we find ourselves under threat?

I realise this thread could become quite emotive so it will be well monitored &
edited if necessary - please keep any reply sensible & non personal.
 
Reactions: Yeti
I get the feeling that spearfishing is and always has been under threat by stealth and will continue to come from both established and new but multiple directions such as increasing conservation areas, licensing, gun laws, increasing minimum sizes, limiting catch numbers and so on... its the British way?
 
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I think you shouldn't be able to buy a gun unless you prove competence.

There is some proper numpties around.
 
apneaboy said:
I think you shouldn't be able to buy a gun unless you prove competence.

There is some proper numpties around.
Click to expand...

Agreed...and another very good reason to have a self-regulating, representative association which could even provide employment for experienced trainers and co-ordinators as part of an initial beginners membership... and without membership and training you can't buy one?
 
I believe thats unfair and a tax on non numpties!! there are idiots on this planet unfortunately and thats why this nanny mentality is creeping into every aspect of life. Again it would be only non numpties towing the line and paying for courses and licenses while the numpties still carry on in the numpty ways regardless!!!!
Keep a low profile i reckon its a niche pastime that most dont know about keep it that way i say its no secret but the wrong people will hear if you start shouting about it!
 
Reactions: spaghetti and Mr. X
You may be forgetting that this is a public forum and is more than likely being monitored now and in the past... so no need to shout. You are right of course and bound to happen but the alternative 'low profile' is fraught with danger like no informed representation where it counts resulting in blanket bans and regulations... if we show good ethical practices from self-regulation and good organisation we may well have a self-determined future... without numpties? Foxfish is absolutely right 'times are a changing'? Also not forgetting that present spearo's can hardly be affected by these ideas/beginner membership other than perhaps positively regarding representation for their future interests?
Not sure about the licensing thing though that would be subject to outsiders and uninformed regulation/legislation... Government or whatever... don't like the idea of that and should be avoided like the plague using self-regulation... a bit like the Australian model with a bit more sense and less sanctions?
 
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These posts are too long to read. I don't care either way really. But there are do gooders going to the police on the other thread Edin. Go gettum !
 
I have to say, I am intrigued by spearfishing in the UK. I lived there for a year but never actually swam in the ocean (I didn't have a wetsuit at the time)...

There are very strong lobbies in many US coastal states who seek to ban ALL nearshore fishing. Just this year in southern California, many of our most productive areas were closed to fishing under the Marine Life Protection Act. The closures were by and large political as opposed to conservation measures... Among other things it was kind of an access issue--by banning fishing from shore on 'environmental' grounds, those who own $10 million dollar beachfront properties no longer have to suffer the indignity of brown people on their white sand beaches; the pro-closure environmental groups were largely funded by real estate developers and big oil and many of those spots that were closed were coincidentally offshore from some of the highest dollar real estate in California. This was a bitter fight for many...

One thing that local spearfishermen did do however, was mobilize and campaign to keep some areas open to spearfishing but not hook and line fishing by arguing that spearing allows for the selective take of fish, produces no by-catch, and has pretty much zero carbon footprint.

Another thing that is common, in Mexico for instance and many developing nations, is to allow spearfishing but not with SCUBA gear. This seems to cut back on tourists decimating reefs, and many local fishermen actually spearfish commercially, but not with SCUBA.
 
Reactions: artiz
Outstanding to hear what's happening elsewhere growingupninja. Thanks for the info! Is there a spearfishing USA/national body/association that represents you at consultation levels or just local people/spearo's opposing legislation as and when it comes along? We've got one called the British Spearfishing Association but they don't actually represent the vast majority view so its a strange position to be in! We also have the European Fisheries Commission (make note of the 'social viability' in the first paragraph?) which is gearing up for new and wide ranging fishing policy reform over the next few years so its probably even more under threat here? Your post makes me wonder what else is happening around the world???
P.S. I've also attached a great paper (for anyone interested) produced by 2 Aussie's ...probably spearo's ... which supports your... or the Californian spearo's argument that spearfishing is indeed ecologically sound, if not the most sustainable and ethical way of catching fish. A smug read I can guarantee! We should definitely shout this - Loud & Proud

View attachment sustainable_spearfishing.pdf
 
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Out here, many of the meetings regarding the closures were, by law, public, and various different proposals and proposed areas were submitted. Also, many pro-fishing grounds fought the closures in the courts for a number of years, and certain areas of the coast are now closed but under judicial review. A lot of the studies that recommended the closures are, certainly among the fishing community, considered highly flawed; the fact is that many of the research scientists received grant money from the same organizations that pushed for closures, and the scientists who were experienced with fishery management and basically said, 'California fisheries are well managed and healthy', were fired from the review panel; some of scientists who authored the pro-closure studies have since been indicted for fraud, etc, it's a mess... anyway don't get me started.

Back to the original point, some spearos who were well informed and eloquent attended these public meetings and spoke. Many spearfishing clubs (next to Hawaii, California probably has the oldest, largest, healthiest freedive spearfishing community in America) mobilized and made all their members aware of what was happening and raised money. As far as groups, the Watermen's Alliance was vocal and seemed to represent spearfishermen. I remember some discussion as to whether spearfishermen as a group should stand with other established pro-fishing groups or seek to separate themselves; I think mostly the pro-spearing groups joined the pro-fishing side since those guys are vast and better funded. And individual spearos who were armed with experience and facts came out very strongly on social media platforms, etc, commenting and raising awareness on many newspaper websites and articles about the closures.
 
Like all type of hunting there is a great number of people that would love to see it banned ! I belive that we should keep spearfishing low key and not advertise. Love to see photos of fish caught but sometimes the photos showing someone stabbing a fish in the head etc is asking for attention of those who would love to stop spearing. I feel they should ban spearing with scuba, most people who I have met who do are not true spearos . Whilst in Gozo this year was chatting to scuba divers who had a real negative to spearing but I did notice some signs saying spearfishing with scuba gear was not allowed and a ban on night spearing with any form of lights.
 
Its a good point Barny. Having recently looked through my posted vids etc on this forum I've thought.... putting that up on a publicly accessible site may not be such a good idea? However I'm still convinced that 'forewarned is forearmed' and 'low key' has dangers, especially if we have no representational body that can put forward our case for sustainability and ecological awareness. I also think we could create a new perception of spearfishing which helps conservation research with our unique underwater coastal range and with many of us with HD cameras. The deal being that we continue to hunt taking only what is sustainably viable whilst counting fish/creature species or seasonal movements even picking up waste like plastic bags, fishing lead, tackle etc etc.The beneficial work we could do is probably endless. Underwater Coastal Custodians perhaps. 'If you can't beat them join them'
 
If there isnt a problem dont try to fix it!!! i agree to be prepared but i think you might be heading along the lines of asking for trouble. just my opinion
 
spudguncat said:
If there isnt a problem dont try to fix it!!! i agree to be prepared but i think you might be heading along the lines of asking for trouble. just my opinion
Click to expand...
Another good point of course! I wouldn't be happy thinking that I had contributed in anyway to the downfall of something I love so much and yet I am very worried that Foxfish may well be right.... new legislation looks as if its coming now more than ever before so its worth repeating the point of this thread - "Where do we stand on these issues? Who is there to offer support if we find ourselves under threat?" I personally think we need to do something now rather than later?... and better than getting caught with our 'trousers/pants down'!
 
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I fully understand that I may now be coming across as a loudmouth so I’ll make my final pleas by addressing Foxfish’s timely thread and then shut up.

After some considerable consultation at the research level I believe the situation is shortly to become critical regarding European wide legislation. In January 2013 the European Fisheries Commission will announce its ‘socially viable’ position/s on future policies for implementation/consultation for the next few years so we should find out then if/to what extent spearfishing is actually under threat in the UK & Europe. Conversely, we currently have no key stakeholder status and worse than that we have no majority representation from the only established and recognised body for spearfishing in the UK, namely the BSA who exclusively represent spearfishing as a ‘sport’. So questions regarding ‘where do we stand and who will offer support’ are clearly answered here … up the proverbial 'sh*t creek without a paddle'?
Secondly, surely we should learn from growingupninja and California’s recent experience of possibly going through something similar here – the end result for our fellow spearo’s in the States… and after what sounds like a long, hard, bitterly fought and clearly ‘on the back foot’ campaign was… “some areas remained open”???
I suppose if most UK spearo’s are happy with something like this then ‘no worries’?

My somewhat desperate suggestions would be to lobby the BSA right now and its current moderate Chairman/Board for wide sweeping change and of course representations of the majority view with a new forward thinking, self-regulated, ethical and ecologically sound perspective before January 2013 (if possible)? Its not going to make everyone happy but far more importantly we may be able to deflect/avoid swingeing sanctions including blanket bans, licensing and uninformed over-regulation? The aims/objectives should surely be... safety in numbers, revised public perceptions, good organisation and most importantly informed/informative representations where it actually counts... even if we are not targeted or under threat?
Enough said.
 
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Reactions: barny02
"do gooders"

I'm trying to find out if a threat is on the cards, but it involves asking questions to the people that have the answers. :waterwork

I could just presume things instead, and debate based on theory; however I will post facts when gathered, in the hope of adding more than just my time to this important discusion. PS. great new thread
 

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I can't find anything in the EU link above that represents any sort of threat or intended threat to spearfishing. In the context of the reform of the CFP (which is what the link is about) spearfishing (and recreational fishing generally) is simply not on the agenda.
Can you please point me to some credible sources (rather than individuals paranoid ramblings on the internet) that show this supposed threat.
On a different note, you seem fairly sure that your views are those held by the majority of spearos, do you have any evidence to support that view?
 
I must confess to not having researched this as much as others on here, but at a quick glance my impression is that the fisheries policy is discussing commercial fishing, so has probably has little or no impact on recreational fishermen such as us.

I'm a little concerned that there's a little bit of noisy paranoia which if we don't control, even though well intended, could end up creating a problem that previously didn't exist.

I'm sure that most of us would agree that to the uninitiated our sport can be perceived as cruel and barbaric, and us seen as plunderers of the oceans making easy pickings of anything that swims by. Especially with youtube videos of large fish getting hit every 2 minutes and divers holding their trophies of large bass catch around their neck, it all looks so easy. But the truth is that most people are completely unaware that we exist at all and I feel that in trying to educate will will inadvertently bring ourselves more attention and create more swell against us.

I still meet people who express their disdain for what we do and then pop of to McDonalds for a burger. We need to be mindful of how we will be perceived and just not hope that legitimacy, facts and common sense will prevail, because for many all you can expect is an ill informed knee jerk and the damage will be done.
 
this is going to the death eh?!!? :martial

my personal opinion would be stay out of the spotlight. Stepping into it without a hope (in my opinion - no matter how organised spearfishing officialdom gets) of stopping the tide, sooner than necessary is just going to make things worse.

What is the plan? Try and bolster the cause by attracting huge numbers then becoming a problem ourselves? :hmm
 
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