Spearfishing knots

[Mr. X]

A couple of things recently got me thinking about the knots we use for spearfishing:

1) I thought I heard one of my favourite YouTubers, British-Austrailian, Dan Mann (possibly the current British spearfishing champion?) say he used a Clove-hitch (rather than the commonly used Constrictor knot) when tying spearguns rubbers!

2) I recently purchased yet another book of knots. This one from an Oxfam Used Book shop but quite modern: (c)2007 (not even 20 years old!).

Re. #1 I'd like to know if Daniel really does use a Clove-hitch, or did he mis-speak? The Clove-hitch is not super-reliable, e.g. a different knot book suggests there is always a better option!! I tend to disagree with the book, as a former climber, we regularly used Clove hitches on long, multi-pitch routes. But I would not use one on my spearguns rubbers, as the Constrictor knot is so similar but seemingly better suited to tying in wishbones.

#2 is called "What Knot" by Geoffrey Budworth & Richard Hopkins. It includes a lot of the knots that we use for spearfishing and several interesting variants of them. (more on those later ,)

 

[Mr. X]

BTW. I have a long interest in knots. Probably starting with Scouts and their lashings, Coarse fishing, then climbing, spearfishing, kayaking and sea-angling.

I recall the Guernsey forum members were particularly keen and good with knots and whipping (e.g. as an alternative to crimps)..

 

[Mr. X]

BTW The above book does mention now common super-strong fibres, like Kevlar, Spectra and Dyneema , but unfortunately does not seem to have anything specifically for them - although I'm still looking through it.

For Dyneema, etc. knots, I tend to look on-line. Particularly Rob Allen's informative YouTube videos on knots (he tends to test his connections and connectors in his lab/workshop/Dive Factory , as well as in the sea ).

 

[FlotsamBob]

Not to hate, but I’ve been burned a couple times from Youtube knowledgerers. Daniel is not the worst of them but his culinary skills need some polish . I will totally vouch for Rob Allen. Not only since he’s based in my hometown but because his products have undoubtedly the best quality testing and initiative to improve in the world of spearfishing. I can’t even get product support from Cressi after mere months of a new purchase. Rob will correspond personally and bend time to offer a solution… His quick release knot is the only one that I can work effectively with thick winter mitts!

 

[rollerGR]

Upon reflection I've only ever used two kinds of knots (besides overhand and double overhand), uni knot or slip knot (sometimes in reverse). Other spearos I know use different knots for the same job. I think it's mostly personal habit and preference if the knot works.

Daniel has a video where he demonstrates a clove hitch. Both clove hitch and constrictor are used here in Greece in spearfishing shops.

 

[rollerGR]

On second thought, strangle knots are also used (Bleutec used to have these, not sure if they still use them).

There's also the common wishbone (or double wishbone, some Mythicon polyspasts have this) knot. Does it have a proper/climber name? (pic)

 

[Mr. X]

On second thought, strangle knots are also used (Bleutec used to have these, not sure if they still use them).

There's also the common wishbone (or double wishbone, some Mythicon polyspasts have this) knot. Does it have a proper/climber name? (pic)

Yes that's a Sheet- bend.

My new book points out that it looks something like the very popular bowline. True, it does look similar - I had never noticed that before ( as they are used so differently).

 

[GMurphy]

A couple of things recently got me thinking about the knots we use for spearfishing:

1) I thought I heard one of my favourite YouTubers, British-Austrailian, Dan Mann (possibly the current British spearfishing champion?) say he used a Clove-hitch (rather than the commonly used Constrictor knot) when tying spearguns rubbers!

2) I recently purchased yet another book of knots. This one from an Oxfam Used Book shop but quite modern: (c)2007 (not even 20 years old!).

Re. #1 I'd like to know if Daniel really does use a Clove-hitch, or did he mis-speak? The Clove-hitch is not super-reliable, e.g. a different knot book suggests there is always a better option!! I tend to disagree with the book, as a former climber, we regularly used Clove hitches on long, multi-pitch routes. But I would not use one on my spearguns rubbers, as the Constrictor knot is so similar but seemingly better suited to tying in wishbones.

#2 is called "What Knot" by Geoffrey Budworth & Richard Hopkins. It includes a lot of the knots that we use for spearfishing and several interesting variants of them. (more on those later ,)

Clove hitches will definitely slip on speargun rubbers. Not straight away, can even last several sessions and multiple shots: But randomly at some point they go. Constrictor knots never slip.

 

[Mr. X]

Yes, I always use a Constrictor knot to tie my Dyneema wishbone beads into my rubbers .

But my new knot book offers several interesting alternatives:
1. Double Constrictor - can be more reliable.
2. Frustrator knot - looks promising.
3. Boa knot - " belt and bracers"
4. Strangle* knot
5. Double figure-of-8 Binding - "somewhere between the Constrictor, strangle knot and boa knot"

*Apparently Swedish knotting expert Om Knutar (1916) preferred the Strangle knot to the Constrictor " because its turns bedded down more snuggly."

 

[Mr. X]

Yes that's a Sheet- bend.

My new book points out that it looks something like the very popular bowline. True, it does look similar - I had never noticed that before ( as they are used so differently).

BTW I believe Sheet Bends are often used to:
1. Tie Dyneema wishbone bones to beads with loops, held in rubbers.
2. To tie some bungees without clips ( such as the Omer-style "rubber bones" that I often use) to monofilament spear line.

FYI perhaps irrational, but I don't usually trust the Sheet Bend, even when the end of the cord is well mushroomed, making it less likely to untie accidentally. So I usually use the more secure Double Sheet Bend instead.

That said, I noticed at least one of my spearguns uses regular single Sheet Bends for this purpose - presumably by the manufacturer (Apnea). And, so far, so good.

For #2, I usually use the double version or a quick release knot, such as one suggested by the great Rob Allen on YouTube.

My new knot book describes several possible alternatives:
1.Simple Simon (1)
2. Simple Simon (2)
3. Heaving-line Bend
4. Seizing Bend
5. Lapp knot
6. One-way Sheet Bend - interesting option: similar to Sheet-bend and the double sheet-bend but more streamline (and probably more secure than the regular, single Sheet- bend(?)).

Also, the "3-way Sheet Bend" might be useful when tying both a Dyneema wishbone and, at the same time, a helpful loading- loop into your wishbone bead-loops, which is common for a roller-gun.

 

[Mr. X]

A couple of things recently got me thinking about the knots we use for spearfishing:

1) I thought I heard one of my favourite YouTubers, British-Austrailian, Dan Mann (possibly the current British spearfishing champion?) say he used a Clove-hitch (rather than the commonly used Constrictor knot) when tying spearguns rubbers!

2) I recently purchased yet another book of knots. This one from an Oxfam Used Book shop but quite modern: (c)2007 (not even 20 years old!).

Re. #1 I'd like to know if Daniel really does use a Clove-hitch, or did he mis-speak? The Clove-hitch is not super-reliable, e.g. a different knot book suggests there is always a better option!! I tend to disagree with the book, as a former climber, we regularly used Clove hitches on long, multi-pitch routes. But I would not use one on my spearguns rubbers, as the Constrictor knot is so similar but seemingly better suited to tying in wishbones.

#2 is called "What Knot" by Geoffrey Budworth & Richard Hopkins. It includes a lot of the knots that we use for spearfishing and several interesting variants of them. (more on those later ,)

Yep, I think YouTuber Dan Man was/is the 2024 British spearfishing champion!! Well done Dan!

Not only that but he was/is the British spearfishing team captain for 2024! And, from his excellent YouTube videos, he has captained the British Team for at least 2 foreign competitions (Spain & Turkey). "Good on you mate!"

 

[Mr. X]

BTW I believe Sheet Bends are often used to:
1. Tie Dyneema wishbone bones to beads with loops, held in rubbers.
2. To tie some bungees without clips ( such as the Omer-style "rubber bones" that I often use) to monofilament spear line.

FYI perhaps irrational, but I don't usually trust the Sheet Bend, even when the end of the cord is well mushroomed, making it less likely to untie accidentally. So I usually use the more secure Double Sheet Bend instead.

That said, I noticed at least one of my spearguns uses regular single Sheet Bends for this purpose - presumably by the manufacturer (Apnea). And, so far, so good.

For #2, I usually use the double version or a quick release knot, such as one suggested by the great Rob Allen on YouTube.

My new knot book describes several possible alternatives:
1.Simple Simon (1)
2. Simple Simon (2)
3. Heaving-line Bend
4. Seizing Bend
5. Lapp knot
6. One-way Sheet Bend - interesting option: similar to Sheet-bend and the double sheet-bend but more streamline (and probably more secure than the regular, single Sheet- bend(?)).

Also, the "3-way Sheet Bend" might be useful when tying both a Dyneema wishbone and, at the same time, a helpful loading- loop into your wishbone bead-loops, which is common for a roller-gun.

Correction, apparently I have used single Sheet Bends extensively on my spearguns in recent years. I just checked my spearguns, 3 of them use single Sheet Bends, most but not all tied by me.

1. Apnea ST60 2x14mm bands. 4 sheet-bends: 2 on each wishbone.

2. Apnea Amorok 95 single roller. 6 sheet bends: 2 on the wish bone, 2 on the loading handle and another 2 on the rear "wishbone"/yoke of the rubber.

3. Omer XXV 75cm single 16mm rubber. 2 sheet bends on the wishbone.

But I guess I still don't fully trust them, as I loosened and retied 3 of them and re -mushroomed* the offending ends with a lighter!! Better!

* Judging by the state of my sheet bends, I would think the mushroomed ends provide essential locking/security for the knot, in this context, as it's end is so short.

 

[deeperthanblue]

Correction, apparently I have used single Sheet Bends extensively on my spearguns in recent years. I just checked my spearguns, 3 of them use single Sheet Bends, most but not all tied by me.

1. Apnea ST60 2x14mm bands. 4 sheet-bends: 2 on each wishbone.

2. Apnea Amorok 95 single roller. 6 sheet bends: 2 on the wish bone, 2 on the loading handle and another 2 on the rear "wishbone"/yoke of the rubber.

3. Omer XXV 75cm single 16mm rubber. 2 sheet bends on the wishbone.

But I guess I still don't fully trust them, as I loosened and retied 3 of them and re -mushroomed* the offending ends with a lighter!! Better!

* Judging by the state of my sheet bends, I would think the mushroomed ends provide essential locking/security for the knot, in this context, as it's end is so short.

Dynema (UHDPE) has an extremely low friction coefficient which causes most standard knots to loosen under load. Common knots like the bowline, reef knot, or Yosemite bowline often slip and can even melt the material from friction during testing. Some knots can also reduce the strength by more than 50%. You may want to try the non-slip mono knot, a snell, or a blood or fisherman's knot. I wonder how suitable dynema is for various speargun applications such as gun lines, breakaway tip lines, etc. The elongation prior to failure is less than 3-5% and can fail at loads under dynamic loading well below their static rating.
For rock climbing, dymena slings are not considered safe for dynamic loading application such as anchors, personal tethers, etc. Also, due to low strech they transfer fall forces to the climber and equipment as compared to nylon slings or dynamic climbing rope.

 

[Mr. X]

Yosemite bowline? I'll have to look that up! I've been to Yosemite twice, climbing big walls and other single & multi- pitch routes ( amazing place!) but never heard of that knot! But that was before Dyneema & Spectra.

I'm surprised you say it's not suitable for"anchors, personal tethers, etc." - as we never considered either of those "dynamic' or needing stretch. The perlon/nylon climbing rope provides all the necessary stretch. In fact I think I still have a large spectra cord loop used for belaying while ice climbing ( wouldn't want or need it to stretch, lest you get pulled off a belay ledge).

 

[Mr. X]

Just looked up the Yosemite Bowline on Google, interesting, it's wiki page includes the following:

"A Yosemite bowline is a loop knot often perceived as having better security[1] than a bowline. If the knot is not dressed correctly, it can potentially collapse into a noose,[1][2][3][4] however testing reveals this alternative configuration to be strong and safe as a climbing tie-in.[5]"

Yosemite bowline - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I couldn't find it in my 1990s British knot book, even under a different name - although in has several bowline variants, to including the Inuit Bowline!

 

[deeperthanblue]

Yosemite bowline? I'll have to look that up! I've been to Yosemite twice, climbing big walls and other single & multi- pitch routes ( amazing place!) but never heard of that knot! But that was before Dyneema & Spectra.

I'm surprised you say it's not suitable for"anchors, personal tethers, etc." - as we never considered either of those "dynamic' or needing stretch. The perlon/nylon climbing rope provides all the necessary stretch. In fact I think I still have a large spectra cord loop used for belaying while ice climbing ( wouldn't want or need it to stretch, lest you get pulled off a belay ledge).

Used to go to Yosemite as a very young kid. We fed the deer, drove thru the tree, watched the firefall, saw bears raiding the trashcans outside the cabins etc. None of that exists any more. Been there many times. We're heading out in about an hour to climb some quartzite in a river dells. Quartzite is notoriously slippery and doesn't hold trad gear wll, many experienced climbers have taken some big whippers there. We just use cord with a prussic for personal tethers. Your mileage may vary.

 

[fixroofleaknj]

A couple of things recently got me thinking about the knots we use for spearfishing:

1) I thought I heard one of my favourite YouTubers, British-Austrailian, Dan Mann (possibly the current British spearfishing champion?) say he used a Clove-hitch (rather than the commonly used Constrictor knot) when tying spearguns rubbers!

2) I recently purchased yet another book of knots. This one from an Oxfam Used Book shop but quite modern: (c)2007 (not even 20 years old!).

Re. #1 I'd like to know if Daniel really does use a Clove-hitch, or did he mis-speak? The Clove-hitch is not super-reliable, e.g. a different knot book suggests there is always a better option!! I tend to disagree with the book, as a former climber, we regularly used Clove hitches on long, multi-pitch routes. But I would not use one on my spearguns rubbers, as the Constrictor knot is so similar but seemingly better suited to tying in wishbones.

#2 is called "What Knot" by Geoffrey Budworth & Richard Hopkins. It includes a lot of the knots that we use for spearfishing and several interesting variants of them. (more on those later ,)
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Hey, great thread on spearfishing knots—got me geeking out over my own setup! On Dan Mann, I dug around and yeah, he does demo a clove hitch in one of his videos for rubbers, but forum folks swear by the constrictor for reliability (it grips like a vice without slipping mid-dive). Your climbing background makes sense—cloves are clutch for quick anchors, but for wishbones, that extra cinch in the constrictor feels safer. "What Knot" sounds like a gem; Budworth's books never disappoint. Looking forward to those variants! What's your go-to for leader knots?.

 

[deeperthanblue]

How to tie a fireman's clove:
FiremansClove

 

[DiveHacker]

I’m not a huge fan of Dan but his videos are very well done of course. Now maybe I’m the one who’s wrong here, I don’t deny that’s a possibility, I just held it against him when he dissed small ID rubbers. He could be right I just happen to think he’s steering people wrong.

I swear I only use 2 spearfishing knots. I got the double constrictor for band tying from mako website. And then Rob allen has a really nice knot to tie dyneema shooting line to reel line, I forget the name of the knot but it releases which helps me everytime my spear wedges into a fish because I just undo the knot. Oh and I do use a bowline to tie my shooting line to the shaft. I’m totally convinced not bowline is good enough. I had my doubts for a while.

 

[Mr. X]

Yosemite bowline? I'll have to look that up! I've been to Yosemite twice, climbing big walls and other single & multi- pitch routes ( amazing place!) but never heard of that knot! But that was before Dyneema & Spectra.

I'm surprised you say it's not suitable for"anchors, personal tethers, etc." - as we never considered either of those "dynamic' or needing stretch. The perlon/nylon climbing rope provides all the necessary stretch. In fact I think I still have a large spectra cord loop used for belaying while ice climbing ( wouldn't want or need it to stretch, lest you get pulled off a belay ledge).

Re. My comment: "...I still have a large spectra cord loop used for belaying while ice climbing ( wouldn't want or need it to stretch, lest you get pulled off a belay ledge)."
The phrase I was trying to recall for my large Spectra loop is a "cordelette" in the climbing vernacular of the time.