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spearfishing morality and ethics

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I love to hunt my food. I never did it until spearfishing- never shot a bird or stepped on a mouse or angled a fish or clubbed a seal or killed anything bigger than a mosquito really for most of my life. I did however eat, but ate food killed (veg and meat) by others, others who were motivated by a paycheque, others probably with little honour or respect for the things that died, possibly painfully, possibly living lives in boxes all their lives, or possibly caught in a giant net with tons of bycatch so that I could get a can of tuna, and meanwhile be horrified at hunting season when the locals would go out to get a moose. Then I woke up.....

There is something primal and wholesome about stalking and killing your own food... unless you experience it, you will remain an outsider to an important part of reality: the reality that things die so that we can live, and better that I do the killing, then I'll know how it died and can honour it and thank it, maybe send a prayer. In a few years something will hunt me, maybe a bear or a shark but probably worms, but nevertheless, it's a cycle and I'm happy to have the awareness to understand it at a physical, mental and spiritual level.
Anyone that wants to survive by letting others do all their killing for them with no knowledge of what actually is happening and sit on the side and shit on those who are honest enough to get some blood on their hands, is welcome to it- but that attitude is why our planet is a mess. That's MY opinion.
Peace,
Erik
 
Reactions: podge, Lockedin, HEDS and 2 others
Good post, Erik. I do send a prayer after killing a fish, to thank my supreme being for providing it.
 
Reactions: Erik
ok deepwater i think you get the picture... im not trying to tell you to piss off so long as you express your view constructively otherwise itsa sort of an attack and that takes a bad turn, i dont take attcks on my friends too lightly andin thiscase i felt it was unjustified, hence my reaction.... but i like that you realized that yourself, and did the right thing.. cool
cheers
 
Reactions: Erik
I hope that JTKeywest isn't upset. I started a new post on this same question. I listed several philosophical/ethical viewpoints so that people can avoid getting personal or political, beceause that gets us nowhere. :head Please read the instructions and follow them!! If you don't I'll bar you from the post :martial(this is just a bluff because I have no power or authority to do this, but PLEASE follow the directions and the rules.) I told Jtkeywest if it bothered him I'd take it down, but after all the time I spent writing it.... I'll just say I really hope it doesn't upset him :friday. Here is the link.

http://forums.deeperblue.net/spearo...tkeywest-post-witha-few-categories-added.html

OBVIOUSLY this is not saying that you shouldn't post your thoughts here. I mean no disrespect to Jtkeywest or to the people who've posted on this thread. I just thought making a new thread with more of a format for discussion might be better for some people....
 
sorry, man i should have caught that. i am getting so used to everyone ganging up on me, that i overlooked the source. interesting though how the very people who seem so against ethics discuusion are the very people who espouse their unwanted moral dillemnas on others. interesting. i dont mean you, by the way, i was hoping maybe you would agree.
 
Hey mate, you started the thread so you should expect all kinds of reactions! There is nothing wrong in that but if you light the touch-paper you will get fireworks! No-one is ganging up on you, it's an emotional subject...
 
you are correct sir, YOU atleast get my point. by the way, it is working well so far,(4 pages in 16 hours so far) now maybe we can discuss gear while the argument proceeds. i actually would LOVE to debate ethics but these hypersensitive people arent ready for my views. i am too real for average people to handle.
 
Deepwater said:
I will express myself on any subject i feel like expressing myself on. Freedom of speech correct. I just have to be a bit more diplomatic.

hey , if you dont like it, have me booted of this forum.
Click to expand...
is any life of equal value,? it seems to me we pick and choose which lives to protect and which lives are expendable based on things like cuteness and cuddlyness, we exterminate insects but protect turtles for instance. if you want your bleeding heart views to be taken seriosly then you have to go all the way. i bet you dont cry when a rat or a mosquito gets killed. are their lives less valuable from a moral view, than a kitty cat? rats are mammals. why dont you write nasty letters to exterminating companies, they kill alot more mammals than we kill fish. i not only want you to respond, i am salivating over it. who decides which life is more valuable? you? by the way, how many dolphins died in the tuna nets to bring you your antiseptic and morally safe can of tuna? if someone had speared that tuna , flipper would still be alive, instead you would prefer it in a can so you can feel better. that is ridiculous. what about fisherman? they kill fish to use for BAIT to catch fish. so they are killing without any guarantee of getting anything for it.
 
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Reactions: Whopperhead
Hey Spaniard 'Cider Tester' - I have a can of scrumpy jack at the mo , what dy'a think a that stuff?

Hope i posted this in the right thread.rofl
 
Reactions: Spaniard
my personal ethics are to take only what you are going to eat and do it as humanely as possable. I try to make all my shots behind the dorsal fin or trough the brain and if they're still kickin when i get hold of em i put my knife in their head. it sounds brutal I know, but it causes the least amount of suffering for the fish and is done out of respect for my prey. The same goes for land based hunting if i cant make a clean kill i dont take the shot.
 
as to scuba vs freedive for spearing I think it is pointless to dicsuss that on such a

broad feild as deeper blue that arguement must be taken in context there are some

places where scuba makes it to easy and others where it is the only way. it also

depends on the person, their are probably people out there who are incapable of

freediving well enough to sucessfuly hunt that way. In some cases they ae even, on

one hand scuba allows you to stay down longer but the noise scares the fish. Freediving

lets you get closer and is quieter but you cant stay down as long.

Again that all depends on species and location.
 
Oh, and rats and insects are prolific breeders and are in no danger of becoming

extinct

as well as the fact that they can ruin food supplies and spread deasiese (black plauge

or malaria anyone?) ever seen what a bunch of locusts can do to a feild? And i know

several people who hate cats and consider them to be little more than moving targets.

All life is unquestonably important but what maters is what is done with that life. It is

wrong for istance to kill a song bird because you are not going to eat it, and it has done

nothing wrong, it is a beautiful creature who does nothing but sing and look pretty. its

death is simply a disrespectfull waste of life. Killing a rat on the other hand is

justifyable. They chew holes in your wall, eat you food, crap everywhere, smell terrible,

and spread deisise. See the differance?
 
I personaly dont mind when threads get a littlle heated I enjoy a good arguement

even if I do get slightly offended, it is fun to debate contraversal topics and discuss the

pros and cons of different thing as well as see the ideas of others and get a different

view on life. Sure, some things may be slightly offensive but it seems like we take

ourselves to seriously some times. Who knows mabey one day you may come to see

something in a new light because you were willing to step outside your comfort zone

and trade fire with somebody.
 
Reactions: naiad
death is simply a disrespectfull waste of life. Killing a rat on the other hand is

justifyable. They chew holes in your wall, eat you food, crap everywhere, smell terrible,

and spread deisise. See the differance?[/quote]
anything is justifyable if you use that logic. rats are mammals and if you believe in evolution are our cousins, genetically speaking. fish are not. many fish are not endangered also. ,in fact IF they are , then you cant LEGALLY harvest them , so that is a non point too. why is the bird more valuable? because YOU think it is pretty? maybe i dont like birds. either way that is opinion. in vietnam they eat cats and dogs, while it is considered taboo by other cultures. in india they worship cows. horse meat is one of the leanest red meats and low in sat. fat, healthier by far than beef, but we ,(usa) dont eat them because we like them.they are pretty . who decides this? i dont think morals or ethics even come into play in this particular context. it is about societies norms and personal opinion. personally i think most birds are annoying and loud messy animals and i use THEM for target practise, if they annoy me even a little. but the idea of anyone shooting my cat is horrific and would be met by extreme retalliation by me with no moral dillemnas whatsoever. bottom line is these are opinions not moral dilemnas. if you kill ANYTHING, you dont have a leg to stand on to tell someone else not to kill whatever they like. you can object and even retalliate, if you like , but you cant use morals and ethics to justify it. if there is a god i find it hard to believe she values one life above another,it would seem we use morals to explain and justify stuff we are gonna do anyway, it just makes it easier if we justify it.
 
true well said
 
So your saying when i run your cat over I should be sure to get you to?
 
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Reactions: Lockedin
You have a point to the justifibility of killing something, but think about it, if you had a rat or 6 living in your house, making holes in your walls, smelling bad, craping everywhere, and eating all the stuff in your pantry. Would you simply accept the fact of it's existince or would you try to get rid of it?
 
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