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static apnea challenge !

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
T

tripitaka

New Member
Jul 20, 2010
4
2
0
Firstly Hello to all! Hats off to all who have made this forum happen and continue to make it the site that it is , thankyou !
I live in Spain and am lucky enough to have a swimming pool for the summer and some time on my hands hooray.
Girlfriend has expressed interest in freediving and so want to get a good solid schedule together for her. Her brother is in the special forces and is from the school that to hyperventilate is the best method of breath hold ! He does not think his ballet dancer sister can beat his static apnea pb of 3.50 . I think she can as she is fit, runs, pilates etc. I have got those beginner tables so will start them and some basic pranyama breathing info. We are regularly running and swimming. Does anyone have any thought views or suggestions or can guide us in this. We have 10 weeks to achieve this . This is a double win as first off its better to train with someone else ( as my dicipline is dire ) and secondly if he loses the bet he has to go to dancing lessons , imagine Rambo in a tutu hahahah ! PLEASE HELP !!! Hope all is good with you all .
 
A

alit

New Member
Jun 7, 2010
10
0
0
Hi

Im fairly new to this myself, but have had surpricingly good results by following this approach: (this is dry statics, i would recomend to gain some experience and seek advice from more experienced guys than me before going to the pool!)

1. Be relaxed before training, lay on back (preferably train in the morning, before eating breakfast)
2. Breathe relaxed for at least 10-15 mins - no need for advanced yoga breathing, just focus on using stomach first on inhale and breathe really relaxed.
3. One minute or so with around 10 breaths/minute, but really deep inhale and exhale (will produce mild hyperventilation symptoms)
4. Max inhale and hold

By doing this my first hold is around 3 - 3.30, second hold around 4.30 and third attempt is max (pb 6.15)

Notes:
1. I think hyperventilation helps beginners
2. Repeatedly holds is better for beginners because we dont get full dive reflex as soon as people with more training
3. Pause between holds can be as little as 5 mins (not 15 mins breathe up like before the first hold)
4. I tried a CO2 table once... but i prefer doing my training without watch, and count contractions ( i do one hold 10 contractions, one 20, one 40, one 20 and one 10 as a pyramid) By not focussing on the time i remove the stress of performing worse one day (u will experience big differences on time between days).
5. If u get past 20 contractions in a somewhat relaxed state it gets a little easier for a while... in this phase u need to think of something comfortable/safe (i picture me laying next to wifey while she "protects" me... like she would if i were in grave pain or very sick) I really believe this is a mental game above all.... so relaxation is key.
6.For me it helps laying on the side while having contractions... produces less pain.

Gl in your attempt... please post pics of rambo in a tutu...lol)

Runar
 
trux

trux

~~~~~
Dec 9, 2005
6,522
766
268
I really dislike when beginners are advised to use hyperventilation. Of course, it makes quick "progress" easy, but it works against you, and does not have any positive training effect. It only brings you into the red zone, and teaches bad habits that can kill you easily once you start doing breathhold under water.

All what hyperventilation or so called breath-up does, is supressing the urge to breath, but other than that it has mostly just negative effects on your real performance, and as told it is very dangerous. The danger is even more important for innexperienced divers who are not able to correctly evaluate their body signals and do not know when to abort the breath-hold safely.
 
island_sands

island_sands

Erection Supervisor ;)
Supporter
Jan 19, 2001
7,998
1,281
418
Firstly Hello to all! Hats off to all who have made this forum happen and continue to make it the site that it is , thankyou !
I live in Spain and am lucky enough to have a swimming pool for the summer and some time on my hands hooray.
Girlfriend has expressed interest in freediving and so want to get a good solid schedule together for her. Her brother is in the special forces and is from the school that to hyperventilate is the best method of breath hold ! He does not think his ballet dancer sister can beat his static apnea pb of 3.50 . I think she can as she is fit, runs, pilates etc. I have got those beginner tables so will start them and some basic pranyama breathing info. We are regularly running and swimming. Does anyone have any thought views or suggestions or can guide us in this. We have 10 weeks to achieve this . This is a double win as first off its better to train with someone else ( as my dicipline is dire ) and secondly if he loses the bet he has to go to dancing lessons , imagine Rambo in a tutu hahahah ! PLEASE HELP !!! Hope all is good with you all .


Very funny, I can imagine the type her brother is... so clearly.

I would suggest you do a course. Spain has federation for apnea and spearfishing, google them and see if you can pick up an instructor.

Hyperventilation really not recommended for beginners... and extending times should be done with constant training and safe, slow progression.

You will get lots of advice on the internet (but you can never be sure that its correct)... check the AIDA website for a list of instructors and see if you can get hold of one in Spain.

(or contact Pedro Carbonell and see if he can help you :) )

best of luck!
let me know when she beats him ;)
 
A

alit

New Member
Jun 7, 2010
10
0
0
of course what trux says is true, and according to the same logic all max attempts should be done with normal blood chemistry (no breathe up and first attempt as max)....

But there are a lot of good apnea athletes that use some kind of "hyperventilation" and warm-up statics before max attempts. Mild hyperventilation symptoms before a breath hold will probably not be dangerous, as long as you have a buddy supporting you... but extensive hyperventlation can produce a hypoxic blackout...

Around 10 deep breaths the last minute before a breath hold will not produce large hypokapnia (normal breath rate is 12-14), and i believe its a fairly safe approach. At the same time some warm-ups before max attempts will give better results for beginners, until their diving reflexes kick in earlier.

that beeing said the goal with training is reaching the level trux describes, where focus is upon max hold related to available oxygen, not max hold in relation to hyperkapnia (urge to breathe)
 
island_sands

island_sands

Erection Supervisor ;)
Supporter
Jan 19, 2001
7,998
1,281
418
Sure Alit.. but without formal or professional training.. or lots of experience a novice could fall into trouble by hyperventilating. could be a bad start :)
 
T

tripitaka

New Member
Jul 20, 2010
4
2
0
thanks for all replies ! interesting answers! I have done a couple of basic courses over the years so have a fairly good understanding of the dangers of deep hyperventilation so dont worry there Trux ! . It does raise the question ( am sure this topic has been discussed countless times on this forum !!! apologies ) at what point does a breathe up cross the line and become hyperventilation ? I ask as obviously there are a number of deep breaths before final breath hold that all divers do, and these could be interpreted as the beginnings of hyperventilation could they not ?
 
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alit

New Member
Jun 7, 2010
10
0
0
yea tripitaka, thats my point.... we are all aware that hyperventilation is dangerous... but 10 breaths the last minute before a hold will not produce dangerously low CO2 values, nor will the 2-3 rapid breaths you see a lot of people use

what trux is talking about is hyperventilation that lowers CO2 levels to the point that hypoxic blackout can occur before the urge to breathe forces the diver up

I also agree with trux when it comes to proper training for long term best results.... i read Ulf Dextegens post here: (in swedish unfortunately) Stockholm Apnea Forum • Visa tråd - Ulf Dextegen He started out with a lot of warm ups and passed 7 mins quickly, before deciding to go without warm ups... a lot more pain, but his pb went up to 8.43...
 
blueface

blueface

I'm not really C N
Sep 23, 2008
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(or contact Pedro Carbonell and see if he can help you :) )

Yeah! Pedro Carbonell! I heard he was pretty good at spearfishing!:)
 
M

Mullins

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2004
1,534
203
153
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Around 10 deep breaths the last minute before a breath hold will not produce large hypokapnia (normal breath rate is 12-14), and i believe its a fairly safe approach.

This breathing pattern is still fairly significant hyperventilation. If I tried breathing like that before a dive, I would definitely be affected by hypocapnea. Remember that while tidal breathing may be at a rate of 12-14/min, it is also very shallow. 10 deep breaths in one minute might mean 4-5 times as much air passing through your lungs.
 
blueface

blueface

I'm not really C N
Sep 23, 2008
373
29
0
I am in total agreement with Dave. 10 deep breaths before a dive and I would be hypocapnic and wouldn't feel a thing.
 
Last edited:
rascolor

rascolor

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2007
182
54
118
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Hi tripitaka
i think hyperventilation will give you falls signals to your body, and will give unnececery risk,try to lisen to your body,progress slowly bud safe.
Wot you should be working on is relaxation, that will give you true progress.
More relaxed , more oxygen, longer breath holds,better filing after dive.

Dive safe and good luck.
 
A

alit

New Member
Jun 7, 2010
10
0
0
Well, i will surely listen to the more experienced guys in here, even though i dont feel many symptoms of hypocapnea with my approach. I havent started doing any wet training yet, and i wont until i have joined the local club. At wich point is it concidered unsafe to perform wet statics (in the surface with buddy) when it comes to effects of hypocapnea? I have had a very strong urge to breathe when i have aborted my dry trainings, without any signs of LMC.... wich should mean that CO2 levels were high before hypoxia became to severe?
 
LevelUP Monkey

LevelUP Monkey

New Member
Jan 19, 2021
4
0
1
38
Hi !

I just how learned to hold my breath for more than 4 minutes underwater, and indeed I was told to never hyperventilate if one is a beginner.
What better way to tell a story than by making a video about it ;)

You can check it out on the following link --> https://cutt.ly/gjUFtrJ

I can't wait to go to the next step and learn how long to hold my breath for a long time while doing Freediving !

Dive Safe!
 
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