Sure you have heard this before…

[The Free Spearo]

I'm sure I'm repeating many others but I cannot figure out for the life of what open cell and and closed cell mean? I've seen some jargon but can't understand it.

Maybe a list of pro's an cons for both? Also would like you opinion on how restrictive 7mm is and if 1 piece or two piece would be better for relatively cold water.

Thanks in advance

Regards

James

 

[Scoobaru]

Open cell is un-coated/un-treated neoprene. It is very soft and stretchy, however it is also very fragile and easy to tear with finger nails, rocks etc. Ive not heard of the term closed cell neoprene, however there is lined neoprene. This has a fabric outer layer (most commonly nylon) bonded to the neoprene. This type of neoprene is more abrasion resistant and a lot harder to rip. However they are not as warm as open cell wetsuits. This is because the nylon later will allow some heat to escape. Many wetsuits nowadays use an open cell neoprene on the inside and a lined outside. This is the best compromise between warmth and durability. Many divers diving from a boat use open cell on the outside and inside as they generally dive deeper, so the extra warmth is nice and they also don't have to climb over rocks to enter the water.

I can't comment much on a 7mm suit as I've never used one and I don't know the area/temperatures you dive.

I hope this has helped you a bit

Dive safe matt

 

[Scoobaru]

With open cell wetsuits you will need a lubricant (shampoo + water mix or some thing similar) to get the suit on with out damagin the wetsuit as the neoprene is very sticky. Double lined suits (nylon lining on the inside and outside) can just be put on as the lining will slide nicely over the body.

 

[MarcinB]

7mm should be quite comfortable, provided that the neoprene is of good quality. 2 piece wet suit without any zippers is the best solution. 7mm should sufficiently warm even in cold water.

 

[The Free Spearo]

Thank you every body I think I'll go with the two piece 7 mil open cell

 

[SurfnSpear]

Use hair conditioner. It's kinder to the neoprene than a shampoo.

 

[Kuya]

Some wetsuits (the newer ones?) do not need conditioner or shampoo to get them on.. just water... my new Omer Blackmoon suit is like this... the open cell neoprene on the inside looks like it has a shiny top coat to it which when wet becomes slippy.. however my mares instinct suit needs shampoo or conditioner - impossible to get it on without!

A 7mm suit will feel more restrictive particularly when out of the water.. in the water it's ok. I was wearing mine earlier this year in 8-9 degree water on a frosty morning. It was so cold the sand on the beach had frozen making it much easier to walk on. The air temp was negative - I didn't move/fin much on that occasion mostly breathing up on the surface and diving down. I didn't get cold but wasn't overly warm either.

 

[azapa]

this is a often confusing point:
open cell - is mat and rough, looks like black foam rubber
closed cell - is the same with a slick surface - not lycra, still rubber, but smoother and shiny. This is often covered metalite or goldlite for marketing purposes

all need lube. IMHO the true open cell is warmer that the rest, but being more porous, gets stinky quicker. Ideal suit for the legendary pissette. the true open cell is the one you will put your fist, butt of gun etc through first (and swear it is a bad suit) until you get the hang of them. ask me how I know ....

 

[minnow]

open/closed cell is actually a misnomer as water would flow right through the interconnected bubbles of an an open cell wetsuit making it pretty much useless.

from my reading neoprene is not made in sheets but rather in blocks and then cut into sheets of the desired thickness, the bubbles in the neoprene are open where the cut goes through them, these cut bubbles form a vacuum against your skin making it difficult to put on without a lubricant and much warmer due to less water between the skin and suit.

a so called "Closed Cell" suit is lined on both sides, often referred to a n2s (Nylon 2 Sides) while a so called "Open Cell" suit is lined on the outside and often referred to as n1s, (Nylon 1 Side).

open cell suits are ~25% warmer than closed cell.

minnow

 

[azapa]

here is the confusion happening: you can still have a slick rubber suit (no nylon or lycra outside) that is closed cell.

In any "open cell" suit, only one side is open, the other is always closed (by a slick rubber or nylon). I have never heard of a suit that was open cell both sides. It would suck hydrodynamicly too (just as nylon does outside)

Although I am o expert, even if you had open cell both sides no water at all would flow through. Each micro bubble is sealed - only when you have a cut you will have open bits of bubble.

 

[Kuya]

Well you have confused me Sir.

You mention that they all need lube, my Omer Black Moon doesn't. It could help I guess, but water alone is all I have used so far. It has the shiny surface you refer to making it closed neoprene by your definition, however I am confused as the OmerSub brochure states that it is open cell neoprene on the inside. Perhaps OmerSub are also confused as to whether it is open or closed cell on the inside?

 

[azapa]

take a picture of the inside of the suit, close up and in good light, and I'll tell you if its open or closed.

Yes: ALL non-lined wetsuits benefit with lube. Especially if you want them to sit right and be able to fully inhale in them.

 

[Kuya]

I agree it may benefit from lube but with this suit lube is not 'needed'. When it is wet only with water it feels slippy, when dry it feels grippy. This is in complete contrast to my other new suit, the Mares Instinct which is impossible to get on without lube.

Anyway, have taken a close up shot set in macro mode. Hopefully there is enough detail for you to decipher if it's closed or open cell.

 

[azapa]

that is open cell, no doubt

BTW you need lube to get into AND OUT of an open cell. If the lube is right (and the suit fits well) the same lube should still be there and help you to remove without tearing it to bits. An open cell needs just the right amount: put too much in, and the butt of the gun will slide around your chest when trying to load!

 

[Kuya]

Yes, looks like open cell to me. Perhaps you have not come across this particular suit? It is a relatively new model. The neoprene must have been treated or manufactured in a certain way which makes it slippy with water only.

 

[landshark sa]

Maybe this will shed some light. Below some inner and outer shots of some of my suits.

Image 1 is a standard 5mm Zero dive suit. Nylon covered neoprene on the in and outside. I don't need lube to put this suit on.

Image 2 is a Omer 5mm open cell suit. Nylon covered neoprene on the outside. Uncovered "raw" neoprene on the inside. Definitely need lube to put this suit on. I use a unscented aqueous cream and water mixture.

Image 3 is a Pelaj 3mm closed cell suit. Nylon covered neoprene on the outside. Raw neoprene on the inside but the surface is smooth and shiny. It's possible to get into this suit with water only but I find using lube makes it easier.

 

[SurfnSpear]

Good tip on the unscented aqueous cream.

 

[MarcinB]

That what is shown on picture 3 is called coating. There are several types of coating (silver, copper, gold). Under this coating there is an open cell neoprene. Coating makes neoprene more slippery and therefore easier to put on.