Swallowing air with noseclip

[turtle]

Hello all, would like to put a question out to people about something that has happened to me a few times. When I dive with a noseclip & eyes directly in contact with the water, i've been finding that i involuntarily 'swallow' a noticeable amount of air into my stomach. This later comes up in burps on the surface.

Does anyone have any ideas about the reasons for this?

thanks,

fred

 

[jome]

Descent or Ascent?

 

[trullalla]

aha!
isn't it horrible?
strangely enough it happens to me only when i do constant and not on unassisted. i overcome that putting a hand on top of the noseclip, which is very stupid, i know, but it works. i think with the time and the practice it will go away. i don't have much time, so i quit the noseclip and went back to the mask!
was it with you i had the same conversation few days ago, or somebody else?
i'll be back today, wanna dive on sunday?

linda

 

[turtle]

jome,

the problem is on descent only, when headfirst. i'm also finding i get it more noticeably on free immersion dives than on constant.

linda,

cheers for the advice, the hand on noscelip thing works strangely enough... but i feel so silly using a hand to equalise with a noseclip...! Dumma dumma me!


thanks
fred

 

[trullalla]

and a little bird just told me you just did a nice personal best today.....WITH A MASK! dumma dumma indeed!

 

[Tbird]

Hi Fred, this is Theo. Yes I had that exact problem last year - swallowing air while using a noseclip and no goggles. It's really embarrassing letting off the mother of all belches on the surface too!

I cracked it by clearing my ears on the surface (head above water) just before the duck dive. Somehow or other the air then 'knows' where it needs to go....try it out.

Best regards and good luck at the Triple Depth!

Theo.

 

[AltSaint]

Hi Fred

Glad to hear you're back in the water again. And getting PB's.

I was getting the same thing as you ( in fact you were probably watching me while it was happening! ) noseclip on, making an ascent, and the pressure building up in the nose.

In my case I am used to using my soft palate as a valve when descending - keeping that and my epiglottis closed most of the time, and just passing air from my mouth through the soft palate for equalisation. So it's difficult to unlearn the way you use those locks when surfacing - keeping everything open to allow expanding air from the sinuses back to the lungs.

In your case you must likewise be keeping your epiglottis closed and the air then has nowhere to go except the stomach ( I think some of mine came out through my tear ducts, which isn't very nice either. )

All you can really do is improve your epiglottis / soft palate co-ordination. Failing that, simulate breathing in through your nose, and the air from your sinuses should then end up in the right place!

( Oops - just gone back and re-read this....realised I am talking about something completely different, as your problem was on descent. Never mind, I've left it anyway, in case you or someone else has the ascent thing as well )

Mark

 

[naiad]

For me, diving without a mask used to cause a strong urge to swallow, until I got a bit more used to it. This is just in pool training, I haven't done depth. A bit more on diving without a mask...
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?p=558011#post558011"]how deep with a mouthful - Page 2[/ame]

Just an idea

Lucia

 

[turtle]

Thanks everyone for the advice, i'll let you know how it goes now.

cheers,

Fred

 

[trullalla]

hi fred,

i just found out that my problem with air swallowing doesn't depend directly on the noseclip, but rather to the feeling of water in my face, especially in the eyes.
i was doing some dives with the noseclip on top of my sphera, and i didn't have any problem at all. but as soon as i take the mask off, and i put my face in the water, i feel clearly that something is shutting down, most likely the soft palate.
so i started doing some very slow 15mt dives in free immersion, with my eyes closed (and noseclip without mask). the first few dives felt quite horrible and i did swallow a lot of air into my stomach. on the third day of this torture i managed to do a 30 mt without hating it, and right after i did a 45 very relaxing and nice dive without swallowing!
so, even though i'm clearly not one of those who try the noseclip the very first time and they think is fantastic and they go for a max straight away, i'm sure with time and practice i'll be able to switch to noseclip for my deep dives.

keep trying!

cheers

 

[Stavros]

Hi Linda!!! How is training going? Hope everyone is having fun down in Dahab.

When I tried a noseclip and fluid goggles at the start of this years CWT training, I was having the same problem on decent with my air being "all over the place" I was swallowing my mouthfill and other horrible things like that. I finally gave up on me noseclip because I realised that my problem had to do with my body being syncronized with having three air spaces ( my lungs - my mouth nose cavity - and my mask) and moving the air around those spaces. When the mask was gone the reflex to send air to it at some stages of the dive was still there and it was blocked by the clip - that caused me to get the urge to swallow the air as it was meeting an unaccustomed barrier at my nose (my clip).
I am sure it was just a matter of getting everything re-synchronized but at that stage I just couldn't be bothered to do the effort since air volume with a sphera was never a problem.

Cheers Stavros

 

[trullalla]

hey stavros!

so apparently we'll see you very soon!
so we can train a bit of noseclip-diving together!

training is not going well....too busy working! i have another busy week and then i'll be back to some depth!

cheers
linda

 

[demasoni]

Just want to add to this thread as I am just starting to have limited success with a noseclip and no goggles for depth. Right now just doing FIM to get used to the feeling and realizing that my solution for swallowing air into my stomach seems to be to mouthfill from the surface and focusing on keeping my epiglottis shut by exhaling against it while closed.

Still need to increase the speed at which water flows over my face to accurately simulate a real CWT dive, but this "circular equalizing" (thanks to Tylerz) seems to work. In other words, a small mouthfill from the surface until final mouthfill depth, then the last one until the deepest point of the dive.

If my epiglottis opens or I swallow by mistake or lack of focus, I can feel the air bubbles flow into my stomach - what a weird dive halting sensation - then get to the surface and let out a giant belch, or two. I don't have the same sensation or belch though if I use a mask and accidentally lose the mouthfill. Have only taken the noseclip to 35m or so slowly, but promising nonetheless... DR seems amplified as well without a mask...

Any other methods guys and gals?

 

[samdive]

This is really interesting - I had exactly this problem at the weekend, doing FIM with just a noseclip

Happy to know it's not just me - but has anyone really solved it? It doesn't bother me too much as even with swallowing it, I seem to have enough air - just need to let some out on the way up..... but would be better not to!

S

 

[fflupo]

for the way up i take the noseclip off

on the way down i m focused now on a clean sharp and magnificant mouth fill and keeping the epiglotis strong and staying relaxed to avoid swallowing air..
i realized if i m kind of rushing it i loose the control about the timing and the right pattern at the right time especially when the trachea pressure increases and becomes uncomfortable
i found it very helpfull to do emty and frc dives and just focus on a clean technik with mental and diaphramic.. relaxation as a base of the equalisation as well as i warm up my eardrums on surface by clearing my ears a few timesbefore i start diving.
a deep dive is like planing a trip and i stick to my plan and follow the procedures as clean and clear as possible and so i stay calm because i trained for it and get selfconfidence and the manoevers become part of the mindgame

btw. i had the same sometimes even with a mask


dont loose motivation

 

[demasoni]

Tried something different and kind of "cheated." Realizing that my air swallowing had to do with the flow of water over my face - especially the area under my eyes - I figured if I could somehow shield that area of the face from water flow, I'd be set.

So, I got a Seal swimming mask and just filled that with sea water. Still can't see, but now the noseclip on, I can go as fast as I can equalize, whereas with just a noseclip on and no mask, the faster I go, the more air I swallow and the more frustrated I would become. Seems to work fine for both CWT and FIM. Perhaps with time and practice, I will be able to ditch the mask and just use a noseclip as the feel of water flow over the face is pretty surreal. Can't wait to test it out in deeper waters!

I was looking at pics of Trevor Hutton in the DB gallery, and realized he was doing FIM with just a Seal mask and noseclip as well. Does anyone know if he also filled his mask with water? I didn't see any hoses or tubing indicating a pipe mask.

 

[fflupo]

i m not sure if you work on da right thing...
i had this swallowing because of a lack of epiglottis control means i had to train my mouthfill/ equalisation and relaxation
it is for sure not a mask wich will make you dive deeper, it is in you !

training technik will give a better performance
wolf